Re: [Epic] E40K:Tyranids Suck!!!

From: David Lado <lado_at_...>
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 00:01:21 -0400 (EDT)

Um, for starters, I don't what happened with you post, but I recieved
5 posts of the same message with different headers (at least, they
all look the same...)

>Ok now I've been playing Space Marine since well... the eldar and chaos
>boxed set came out..
>
>and now in the new system (not to sound say... Whiny) Hand to hand (or
>claw) combat is allmost pointless.. I mean just 2 days ago 5 stands of
>genestealers and one stand of tyranid warriors got beat by 3
>Whirlwinds!!! yes you read right... in the old system this was allmost
>impossible..

Its very interesting that people seem to fall into 2 very divergent
camps on this issue. Some feel that CC is totally worthless, while
others feel it totally dominates the game. I wonder how much of this
is a reflection of players tactics versus game mechanics.

>here i'll show you the way it was set up and how it came out...
>
>Key: WW = 1 Whirlwind
>
> SS = 1 Space marine
> HH = 1 Space marine hero
> PP = 1 Space marine Psycher
> LL = 1 Land raider
>
> Note: the whirlwinds are one detachment and the
>marine,Psycher,Hero are another and the land raiders yet
>another detachment.
>
> GG = Genestealer stand
> TT = Tyranid warrior stand
>
>
>WW WW WW WW WW WW
>ss ss ss ss ss ss
>ss ss hh pp ss ss
>
> ww ww ww
> TT GG GG GG GG GG <-- 2 to a stand note
>all models within 15 cm of combat .
>
>Marine Assault value WW=0+ 1 for every stand within 15 cm for
>support= 18
>
> note marines No Blast markers
>
>Tyranids assault value: (5*6(genestealers))+4(tyranids warriors)= 34
>
>Marines have: less blast markers than enemy .. +1 bonus to dice
> a psycher in support of hth .... +1 bonus to dice
>
>Tyranids have: Greater Assault value .... +1 bonus to dice
>
>Marine player drops a 5 and Tyranid player dropped a 2 tot:
>
>5+2 7
>
>2+1 3
>
>Marines win with a diff of 4 on the chart it shows kill enemy on 3+
>enemy kill on 5+
>
>hence the whirlwinds procede to kill all the stands and the tyranids kill
>none.(dice rolls)

I think you missed a rule (page 22 of the rule book, my emphasis)
under "1. TOTAL ASSAULT VALUES"

"Any other units _from the detachment involved in the combat_ which
are with 15cm of the enemy each add a further +1 to the total..."

So what you should have had was

tyranids 34, marines _6_

tyranids roll 2+4 = 6
SMs roll 5+1=6 (psycher doesn't count because he's not in the CC)

RESULT: both sides add 1 BM and roll again.

Also, each side rolls a number of dice for inflicting casualties
equal to the number of units they have in CC (3 for the SM,
6 for tyranids), so the most units he can kill is 3.

The conclusion is the marines have only about a 1 in 12 chance of
winning the battle and a real good chance of getting clobbered. Of
course you would probobly loose the ensuing FF.

Also remember that you are charging 6 tyranids into the face of
21 marine units. I don't think you had any reason to expect to
come out on the winning end of that equation (in the long run).

Several people have complained that the new CC system is too
random. While agree that it is more random, I don't think it's
too random.

With the old system, all that mattered was getting units into
base to base contact. After that, CAF and dice rolls took over.
What it meant was that (1) mounting an assault mostly meant
charging headlong into the enemy and (2) because each CC was
rolled individually, the results tended to be averaged out over
the entire unit. This works fine and it generates a set of
tactics to go with it.

In e40k, CC is no longer a sure thing. Having twice the number
of guys (or 2x the the assault factor) as the enemy means you
will win most of the time, but you will lose some of the time.
If you want a sure thing, you need to do more than just have
more guys. You need to soften up the enemy (put BMs on him),
you need to get an advantage in psychers, and you want to hit
him on the flanks where you can maximize your troops in contact
while minimizing his available for support. This means an
assault is no longer just mobbing the enemy with CC troops, it
involves supporting units, supporting fire, air support, and
tactical maneuver. An assault is an integrated strategy, not a
headlong charge (well, not as much :). I like this aspect,
since it makes pushing the pieces around important, in addition
to having the right units for the job.

David
Received on Fri Jul 18 1997 - 04:01:21 UTC