Re: [NetEpic ML] Regarding Epic40K- Armageddon Playtest

From: <deaconblue3_at_...>
Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 18:41:38 -0500

Responding to Markco's comments:

I for one have no desire to return to the turgid shooting duels of
editions before E40k (the One True Game). Why resolve firing of 3
tanks at a time when you could resolve the fire of an entire company
in the same time? Why have several dice rolls to resolve hitting and
armour effects when it can all be rationalised into a single die
roll? Why issue orders to platoons when you should be issuing them
to whole companies? The name of the game is Epic not Squad Leader.
Space Marine reminds me too much of those old moderns and ww2 rules
where u had to roll to spot a target, then roll to hit, then roll to
penetrate, then make individual morale tests for tiny little sections
of your force... uh! no thanks...

-->The basic sof the E40K mechanic are going to stay, irregardless of
what I, or this list, or anyone else says. That's a fact. Part of the
problme with E40K is that it went too far in its simplification. In
fact, it did become little more than 40K with tiny minis. the weapon
types, and effects were over simplified, and their statistal ranges (for
range, fp, at, disrupt, etc) too limited to offer the "true"
diffrentiation that "exists" between units and their owning armies. E40K
needs layers of complexity, as NetEpic has done, with basic, advanced,
and super-advanced rules, to allow the individual to form the game to
their own desired level of complexity and detail. Epic is not Squad
Leader, yet the army creation mechanic is very much like Squad Leader.
You don;t have standard TO&E's for SM's and IG, or Eldar. Orks, Chaos,
and Bugs should have more freedom of composition than IG, SM, or Eldar.
Plus, Titans are broken, either using straight up E40K, or even more so
with AT2. E40K is great as a generic system, but it is not Epic.

Also a number of 'realism' factors annoyed me about Space Marine...
Why do you always have to kill something to affect morale, and why
can troops move even under heavy fire?! I'm not sure if net-epic
addresses these mind u. Also the play balance and character of
armies in E40k (with a few exceptions) appeals to me a lot more in
E40k than it did in space marine. Eg. Eldar really capture the feel
of a swift deadly, but brittle rapier that needs to choose when and
where it strikes with care... hit and fade. Beats the old eldar 'tie
things up with aspects and bikes and shoot them from a distance' of
the previous editon.

-->In part you're right. Each edition promoted, and rewarded certain
types of styles and tactics. Morale should be a factor, but not the be
all end all that it is in E40K. Even thoroughly demoralized armies can
win battles. Just ask Napoleon, or Peiper. E40K tried to take on these
aspects, but went way too far in doing so. It's no fun at all to just
run around the board, get pounded with BM's and disrupts, and lose the
game before you can engage the enemy. Army balance is generally what you
make of it. It is just as possible to "cheeze" an army in E40K as it is
in SM/TL, or NetEpic. So, that falls a bit flat to me. Also, when a
model is "killed" it's not just KIAs that it represents, but wounded, and
disruption of cohesion as well. so, a "dead" unit may be rallied after
the battle, but won't be while the shooting is going on. It's a matter
of how you represent all these effects with in the game mechanics. E40K
doesn't do this effectively IMO.

I do agree with comments made here about the sort of audience Epic
appeals to. I and many other historical gamers cruised into Epic,
especially when E40k was released, in spite of enormous difficulties
because of the crappy release schedules and marketing... we do not
play other GW games, though BFG and warmaster have their appeal...

-->I honestly have only played 2 games of BFG. They weren't bad, but I'm
not a big space combat guy. though Bab5Wars has its appeal. Warmaster I
like alot. Now that IS an elegant system. I have only 1 army for it,
but it's fun to play, and I can actually build the Empire army I want,
with out having to spend $1000's for it in Warhammer.


I also agree that the netepic list is a very pleasant bunch of
people, as is the epic list... In fact I have remarked on other lists
that if they want to see an example of netiquette with never a flame
in sight they should join the epic list... totally seriously.

-->I can't recall a serious flame war on either list, at any time.
Though Marco in Italy may think I'm the antichrist, and disagree with me.
 Even when E40K first came out and there was a serious row on the old
space_marine list (remember that Major Domo list?) over it, it never
degenerated into a real flame war.

Josh R

"No matter where you go, there you are." B.Bonzai
Received on Mon Feb 11 2002 - 23:41:38 UTC