[NetEpic ML] Re: Netepic, epic40k and Tyranids

From: Peter Ramos <pramos_at_...>
Date: Mon, 06 Dec 1999 19:18:31 +0000

Hi!

First off, a hardy welcome to you. When we made net epic it was for people
like you in mind, with little experience in epics previous rules but eager
to learn and play net epic. I hope we can satisfy all your questions.

Felix Hermann wrote:

> Hi there!
> I�ve been watching the discussion here for quite some time and now I
> simply have some things to discuss ...
>
> I�m a newbie to netepic and I�ve never played the old epicstuff or
> wh40k. I played epic40k for a year and our local group (in Berlin)
> stopped playing. This had several reasons. First of all the rules of the
> "new" epic40k. I am a passionate Tyranidplayer and I simply have to say
> that the undetailed way of treating the armies in epic40k made me become
> frustrated. Especially the fact that the armies are simply unbalanced.
> The things I hated most were the fact that "human" players could use
> imperial guard and space marines as one, which I think is far too
> powerful. And secondly the orks are much too weak. And my own Tyranid
> army could only be used in a limited way. Why use Heirodules or
> Heirophants when they are reduced to ashes by a simple 50 points vortex
> missile ??? That really sucked ... and the heavy weapons like antitank
> were much too powerful. The Landraider was ultimately cheap and had 2
> antitankshoots ...

<big ferocious grin> As the saying goes "if I had a nickle for everytime I
heard that..."

There are many things I dislike about epic40k, but you have named the one
most people mention-lack of detail and character. While the basic mechanics
are sound its lack of detail makes it pretty dull to play. Unfortunately you
play one of three armies that got hosed the most in these rules (orks, chaos
and tyranids). It seemed to have escaped GW that ork, chaos and tyranid
players LIKED their special rules, sure they were fiddly and sometimes
downright silly, but thats the attraction! An ork player reveled in the
uncertainty of his weapons, "will it work?" , "will it work great or just so
so?" heck most ork players I know (and I know many) really had a lot of fun
with all the special rules. Whats chaos without spells, just another
Imperial wannabe army. What is the hive mind without rules to make it work
as such?

Its no mistake Imperial armies are better than all others, its the GW way.
Look at 40k same deal, the premiere Imperial army and all the other rejects
for target practice.

Space marine and net epic, while having its own problems at least offers a
level playing field no army is obviously better than the other. As for
allies, well, thats been proposed many times and always shot down. Its easy
to win with an army of marine infantry and IG tanks and artillery, play a
pure army and theres the challenge.

> Well you all certainly know what I am complaining about. GW should not
> wonder too much when nobody is actually interested in new epic40k ... .
> So I was really pleased to see that there are others who think in the
> same way about epic40k when visiting the Epicentre on the web.

Hehe, we know EXACTLY what you are talking about! the rules combine by the
stupidest release schedule I have ever seen GW undertake killed epic. Say
what you will about the newer rules, but one objective fact remains-under
those rules the game was put out of print for the first time since its
conception.

> I first was nearly "smashed" by the mass of rules of netepic. I read the
> core rules and my own armylists and really liked the "new" detail of the
> tyranid army.

Yeah, we got carried away I think. For this revison it will be good to trim
the fat and leave most alternate units to a "alternate rulebook". Of course
the detail will still be there.

> But there are several things i am not sure about :
>
> (1) Regenerating :
> Regenarating does only apply in the round the wound was actually taken
> so if it was not regenerated the wound would become parmanent, right?

That would be the logical assumption, but under current interpretation, you
may still strive to regenerate wounds that failed to regenerate in
subsequent turn. This makes tyranid creatures with wounds perhaps TOO
powerful. We may address this when army list revision comes around.

> But if they become permanent, then regenerating isn�t that powerful ...
> what chances actually has a heirophant in single combat lets say against
> an warlord titan ?

Bio-titans excel at close combat, their ability to regenerate really puts
reagular titans at a disadvantage.

> What about hive mind cards, for example Regenerate : Wouldn�t it be
> possible to regenerate a Heirophant every round ( by redrawing that
> card) no matter how many wounds he suffered ?

Cards are played once and discarded, but yes, you could regenerate all its
wounds in one turn with it.

> (2) Are there any others here playing *bugs* ? If yes, tell me about
> your tactics against imperial guard or space marines ... do you think
> tyranids are balanced in netepic ? (As I�ve seen weapons like the vortex
> missile or warp missile remain !)
> => it shouild be possible to nullify the warp or vortex missile by using
> the psyching save .... ??

Psychic saves can nullify vortex and warp missiles, so much to your liking
these weapons are pretty useless agains bio-titans and the dominatrix that
have psi-saves.

I play all the armies in epic and the rules are balanced and tyranids have a
good chance of winning just like everybody else. I'll throw some tactics
your way in a separate post.

> (3) targetting / shooting at titans ...
> I still haven�t understood that yet ... Lets say an unshielded
> WarlordTitan is hit - how do I figure out the hit location ? May the one
> who shoots select, where to shoot at, and then it scatters or what ? If
> you think there are any other unclear things about that - tell me now

When you hit an unshielded titan you select a location on th template on
which you would like the shot to land lets save the reactor on a warlord
titan. You then use the titan location dice, these are two dice one with an
UP and DOWN and four blank spaces and another with LEFT and RIGHT and four
blank spaces. Roll these two dice and that will tell you where they shot has
deviated in relation to the spot you originally chose. Lets say you rolled
an UP and blank space on the two dice you would shift one square upwards.
Shots that deviate off the template (an empty square) miss entirely. If you
land in a proper square on the template you roll for armor as normal, clear?

> (4) How does scattering for indirect barrages work ? => how are the
> scatter dice used here ?

This scatter dice has 4 arrows and two "bullseye". If it lands on bullseye
you hit right where you put the template (much to the opponents woe), if an
arrow comes up roll 2d6 and move the template in the direction the arrow is
pointing to the full amount in centimeters as you rolled on the dice, clear?

> (5) Alternating between the players in the phases ...

This just means the player who wins initiative may move ONE (and only one)
detachments and then "a;ternates" or passes to the opponent, who then moves
ONE detachment. Play alternates between the two players until all units have
moved. This applies to firing as well. A detachment is defined as one
self-dependent unit. Note larger formations like companies usually have
three companies.

> Unfortunately we did not have a Netepic battle yet because we did not
> want to start with unclear rules ...

No worries, ask as much as you like as often as you like, questions of this
nature shed light on what needs to be fixed or better explained.

Peter
Received on Mon Dec 06 1999 - 19:18:31 UTC