A little math on titan CC

From: Weasel Fierce <septimus__at_...>
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 13:48:27 GMT

Hi guys.
The titan close combat discussions has been raging for quite a while. I have
made some calculations on the chances for infantry to survive and cause
damage.

In these examples I have used a reaver titan (CAF +12) with no extra CC
weapons.
I have used 4 infantry detachments in the examples: An IG tactical
detachment (10 stands CAF +0), a marine tactical detachment (6 stands CAF
+2, 3 rhinos CAF +0), a marine veteran detachment (6 stands CAF +4 elite, 3
rhinos CAF +0) and an eldar exarch detachment (4 stands CAF +8 elite).

While warlords are the main battle titan, reavers are much more common on
the gaming boards. Also, it is a very good all-round titan. Eldar phantoms
and warlocks got +12 too (i think)

Here goes:

A: Original 2nd edition epic rules. The average result for the reaver is 19.

The IG grunts will reach an average CC result of 17.5 with the fourth stand
(which dies) and 21 with the fifth (which wins). So on average, every stand
after number five will hit the titan.
Result: 4 stands lost, titan suffer 6 hits.

The marines throw their rhinos in first. Rhino 3 get an average value of 14.
The first marine stand get 19.5 and will propably draw then. Each stand
after that will get a higher result on average.
Result: 3 rhinos lost. Titan suffers 5 hits.

The veterans get similar results with the rhinos. However the first veteran
stand has an average score of 21.5.
Result: 3 rhinos wasted. 6 hits to mr. titan.

The pointy eared eldar get 18.5 on average with the second stand. This can
be considered a draw.
Result: 1 stand die, 2 hits to the titan.

Conclusion: Strength in numbers. It doesnt matter much what you throw at the
titan, its gonna suffer.
Actually the really heavy guys (exarches, termies etc.) are less effective
than the cheap grunts because of the smaller gang-up bonusses.

B: 2nd edition rules but titans roll 4d6. This gives the reaver an average
of 28.

The IG will reach a draw with stand 7 and win with stand 8.
Result: 6 stands gone, 3 hits. If the tac's suffers hits before the
engagement they are in for a tough fight.

Marine assault (tac's) wins after marine stand 3.
Result: 3 rhinos and 2 stands go down. 4 hits to the titan. (Note that
before the IG got more hits in)

Veterans win with the second stand (average 29)
Result: 3 rhinos and 1 stand dead. 5 hits to titan.

The eldar get the axe here, actually the fourth stand gets an average 25.5
Result: 4 squished eldar stands. 1 unscathed titan.

Conclusion: Much tougher for the grunts. Elites need cheap back-up. A few
guardians would have helped the eldar.

C: 2nd edition but titans double CAF (Average result of 31)

The guard reach a draw / win with stand 8 (average 31.5)
Result: 7 stands die, 2-3 hits.

Marine tacticals get 30.5 with stand 3.
Result: 3 rhinos, 2-3 stands dead. Titan gets 3-4 hits.

Veterans win big with stand 3.
Result: 3 rhinos, 2 stands away, 4 hits to titan.

The eldar cant reach an average of 31 so they perish.

Conclusion: Not much different, but the bigger titans will get MUCH meaner,
while warhounds etc. will be swamped.

D: The current NetEpic 3.0 rules.

The imperial guard will on average get 1-2 stands through.
Result: 8-9 dead IG, 1-2 hits on the legs with a save modifier of -0.

The marines have a rough 50% chance of causing a hit with a rhino (which die
anyway) and -0 to save. On average 1 stand survive.
Result: 3 dead rhinos, 5 stands dead. 1 hit with -2, 0-1 hit with -0.

The veterans have 2 survivors but other wise little more happens.
Result: 3 rhinos wasted. 4 stands die. 2 hits -3, 0-1 hit -0.

Exarches get 1 hit. 2 if lucky.
Result: 2-3 (most likely 3) dead. 1-2 hits with -3.

Conclusion: Infantry get wasted big time. I think it is interesting that
tactical marines (CAF +4, 350 points I think), do more harm than the
exarches (CAF +8, 400 points)

E: 2nd edition but multiple attacker bonus is limited to +1 per previous
combatant.

The IG might cause damage with the final stand (average 18)
Result: 9-10 dead.

Our beloved marines get an average of 17 at most.
Result: 3 dead rhinos, 6 dead marines

The veterans reach 19 on average with the final stand.
Result: 3 dead rhinos, 5 stands dead, no damage to reaver

The eldar get a final average of 18.
Result: Squish, squish, squish, squish

Conclusion: Much too wild. This makes the titans too invulnerable.

F: 2nd edition but add +1 for every previous attacker, unless that attacker
was elite (which adds +2)

This does not change things for the IG and tacticals.
The veterans get an average of 20 (win) with stand 4
Result: lose 3 rhinos and 3 stands. Score 3 hits.

The eldar get an average of 19 with stand 3.
Result: 2 stands lost, 1 hit scored.

Conclusion: Elites might do it, with sufficient sacrifices. Others still
bite it.

G: 2nd edition but add +2 for every previous attacker, +3 for elites.

IG will draw with stand 7.
Result: 6 lost, 3 hits on titan

Marines draw with stand 3.
Result: Lose 3 rhinos and 2 stands. Score 3 hits.

Veterans will win after the first marine stand..
Result: Lose 3 rhinos and 1 stand. Cause 5 agonising hits.

The eldar will win after 2 stands.
Result: 2 lost, 2 hits.

Conclusion: This seems pretty acceptable. It is costly, but can succeed. I
rather like this.


These results should bear in mind that they are calculated on average
results, they do not take wild luck into account or the fact that the
infantry might very well have suffered casualties along the way.

But it is up to people to decide�just though I wanted to show this to you.

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Received on Sun Apr 16 2000 - 13:48:27 UTC

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