I like the idea of current rules, but allow the Titan to be able to make a
save roll against the hit modify by attackers CAF. would show the Titans
strength against weak infantry, but also would show it's vunerable against
harden vets and specail troop types.
----- Original Message -----
From: Weasel Fierce <septimus__at_...>
To: <netepic_at_egroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, April 16, 2000 9:48 AM
Subject: [NetEpic ML] A little math on titan CC
> Hi guys.
> The titan close combat discussions has been raging for quite a while. I
have
> made some calculations on the chances for infantry to survive and cause
> damage.
>
> In these examples I have used a reaver titan (CAF +12) with no extra CC
> weapons.
> I have used 4 infantry detachments in the examples: An IG tactical
> detachment (10 stands CAF +0), a marine tactical detachment (6 stands CAF
> +2, 3 rhinos CAF +0), a marine veteran detachment (6 stands CAF +4 elite,
3
> rhinos CAF +0) and an eldar exarch detachment (4 stands CAF +8 elite).
>
> While warlords are the main battle titan, reavers are much more common on
> the gaming boards. Also, it is a very good all-round titan. Eldar phantoms
> and warlocks got +12 too (i think)
>
> Here goes:
>
> A: Original 2nd edition epic rules. The average result for the reaver is
19.
>
> The IG grunts will reach an average CC result of 17.5 with the fourth
stand
> (which dies) and 21 with the fifth (which wins). So on average, every
stand
> after number five will hit the titan.
> Result: 4 stands lost, titan suffer 6 hits.
>
> The marines throw their rhinos in first. Rhino 3 get an average value of
14.
> The first marine stand get 19.5 and will propably draw then. Each stand
> after that will get a higher result on average.
> Result: 3 rhinos lost. Titan suffers 5 hits.
>
> The veterans get similar results with the rhinos. However the first
veteran
> stand has an average score of 21.5.
> Result: 3 rhinos wasted. 6 hits to mr. titan.
>
> The pointy eared eldar get 18.5 on average with the second stand. This can
> be considered a draw.
> Result: 1 stand die, 2 hits to the titan.
>
> Conclusion: Strength in numbers. It doesnt matter much what you throw at
the
> titan, its gonna suffer.
> Actually the really heavy guys (exarches, termies etc.) are less effective
> than the cheap grunts because of the smaller gang-up bonusses.
>
> B: 2nd edition rules but titans roll 4d6. This gives the reaver an average
> of 28.
>
> The IG will reach a draw with stand 7 and win with stand 8.
> Result: 6 stands gone, 3 hits. If the tac's suffers hits before the
> engagement they are in for a tough fight.
>
> Marine assault (tac's) wins after marine stand 3.
> Result: 3 rhinos and 2 stands go down. 4 hits to the titan. (Note that
> before the IG got more hits in)
>
> Veterans win with the second stand (average 29)
> Result: 3 rhinos and 1 stand dead. 5 hits to titan.
>
> The eldar get the axe here, actually the fourth stand gets an average 25.5
> Result: 4 squished eldar stands. 1 unscathed titan.
>
> Conclusion: Much tougher for the grunts. Elites need cheap back-up. A few
> guardians would have helped the eldar.
>
> C: 2nd edition but titans double CAF (Average result of 31)
>
> The guard reach a draw / win with stand 8 (average 31.5)
> Result: 7 stands die, 2-3 hits.
>
> Marine tacticals get 30.5 with stand 3.
> Result: 3 rhinos, 2-3 stands dead. Titan gets 3-4 hits.
>
> Veterans win big with stand 3.
> Result: 3 rhinos, 2 stands away, 4 hits to titan.
>
> The eldar cant reach an average of 31 so they perish.
>
> Conclusion: Not much different, but the bigger titans will get MUCH
meaner,
> while warhounds etc. will be swamped.
>
> D: The current NetEpic 3.0 rules.
>
> The imperial guard will on average get 1-2 stands through.
> Result: 8-9 dead IG, 1-2 hits on the legs with a save modifier of -0.
>
> The marines have a rough 50% chance of causing a hit with a rhino (which
die
> anyway) and -0 to save. On average 1 stand survive.
> Result: 3 dead rhinos, 5 stands dead. 1 hit with -2, 0-1 hit with -0.
>
> The veterans have 2 survivors but other wise little more happens.
> Result: 3 rhinos wasted. 4 stands die. 2 hits -3, 0-1 hit -0.
>
> Exarches get 1 hit. 2 if lucky.
> Result: 2-3 (most likely 3) dead. 1-2 hits with -3.
>
> Conclusion: Infantry get wasted big time. I think it is interesting that
> tactical marines (CAF +4, 350 points I think), do more harm than the
> exarches (CAF +8, 400 points)
>
> E: 2nd edition but multiple attacker bonus is limited to +1 per previous
> combatant.
>
> The IG might cause damage with the final stand (average 18)
> Result: 9-10 dead.
>
> Our beloved marines get an average of 17 at most.
> Result: 3 dead rhinos, 6 dead marines
>
> The veterans reach 19 on average with the final stand.
> Result: 3 dead rhinos, 5 stands dead, no damage to reaver
>
> The eldar get a final average of 18.
> Result: Squish, squish, squish, squish
>
> Conclusion: Much too wild. This makes the titans too invulnerable.
>
> F: 2nd edition but add +1 for every previous attacker, unless that
attacker
> was elite (which adds +2)
>
> This does not change things for the IG and tacticals.
> The veterans get an average of 20 (win) with stand 4
> Result: lose 3 rhinos and 3 stands. Score 3 hits.
>
> The eldar get an average of 19 with stand 3.
> Result: 2 stands lost, 1 hit scored.
>
> Conclusion: Elites might do it, with sufficient sacrifices. Others still
> bite it.
>
> G: 2nd edition but add +2 for every previous attacker, +3 for elites.
>
> IG will draw with stand 7.
> Result: 6 lost, 3 hits on titan
>
> Marines draw with stand 3.
> Result: Lose 3 rhinos and 2 stands. Score 3 hits.
>
> Veterans will win after the first marine stand..
> Result: Lose 3 rhinos and 1 stand. Cause 5 agonising hits.
>
> The eldar will win after 2 stands.
> Result: 2 lost, 2 hits.
>
> Conclusion: This seems pretty acceptable. It is costly, but can succeed. I
> rather like this.
>
>
> These results should bear in mind that they are calculated on average
> results, they do not take wild luck into account or the fact that the
> infantry might very well have suffered casualties along the way.
>
> But it is up to people to decide.just though I wanted to show this to you.
>
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Received on Sun Apr 16 2000 - 14:10:11 UTC