Date: Wed, 30 May 2001 15:59:57 +0100
What about underground tanks? A form of tunneling leman russ, could provide
some mobility and support fire ability. But unfortunatly I cannot recommend
a model.
Tom.
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Ramos [mailto:primarch_at_...]
Sent: 30 May 2001 02:37
To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] unballanced armies
Hi!
I'm always for new units, I need some more before the new units book is to
be made. Are you aware the recent squat book includes tunnelers and squat
specific tanks and transports?
If possible try to recommend a suitable model for any new units you make
so as to make it easy for others to field them.
Anxious to hear some ideas on this.
Peter
Albert Farr� Benet wrote:
Well, I agree that squats are difficult to beat, but it depends on the
ability of your opponent (and yours, of course). I think that Squats are the
easiest army to play. Anyone can take Squats and sit down, start to fire and
wipe out anything that comes out of the smoking craters.
But you'll find that playing squats this way you'll win some (lots of)
games UNTIL some one beats you. Then you'll start losing because your tactic
is worn out and your gaming group has found the spoiler for the basic squat
tactics. And then you'll have lots of problems to surprise your opponent
with a new tactic, because squats are not Eldar nor SM. Squat army is a very
unflexible one, even less than IG, because IG at least has a wider choice of
different units to allow different possibilities of approaching each game.
I also agree with Peter, Squats are the opposite of Chaos, if you
survived 3 turns against squats, this means you'll have much chances to win.
And now for somehing completely different: the squat army
Would it be possible to add more squat units? I find their army list too
undeveloped. I know this is not a problem from Netepic, because GW has never
developed squats to their full capability (has he ever developed them beyond
the basic game first approach?).
I think squats should have something as scouts, or learning warriors or
some kind of cheaper troop with less morale. It can't be that ALL squats are
amazing warriors...they had to spent some time learning, and in times of war
every citizen is needed to fight.
And what about some infantry variants, like support squats with flamers
or medium range heavy weapons (like Heavy Bolters - 2 dice 50 cm -1 ST)
I also think we could add some specific squat tunnellers. They live
underground, don't they? so they should have better technology than IG.
New ideas always welcomed of course, but please, don't make squats still
more static; no more artillery pleaze!
I would like to hear some opinions on that, perhaps even a poll (oh my
god, heretic! heretic! cleanse'im!) wether squats could be developed a
little further.
Albert
----- Original Message -----
From:nils.saugen_at_...
To:netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2001 9:56 AM
Subject: RE: [NetEpic ML] unballanced armies
I have to agree, I played sqats with my Necrons (3.0 rules if I
remnember
correctly) and barely won. I played one of IMHO best games ever, and
my
opponend did some strange things.( I won because he chose not to
attack a VP
on the flank with his bikes, thus making it possible for me to move my
mechs
up close to them and blast away with my heavy weaponry, + I made that
all
crutial repair roll on a unit holding a objective on a bridge in the
centre
of the field). I have said it for a while, I guess both Rune and
Trygve can
confirme this, squats are very hard to defeat perhaps too difficult.
Now
that is just a challenge for me, I love playing against armies with
superior
stats. However, I understand perfectly well why some groups might ban
squats
from the game ruling them as an unbalanced army. (They are certainly
very
close)
Nils
-----Original Message-----
From: Karlsen Rune [mailto:rune.karlsen_at_...]
Sent: 29. mai 2001 09:25
To: 'netepic_at_yahoogroups.com'
Subject: RE: [NetEpic ML] unballanced armies
Yes, we've tried Slann Vs. Squats. I brought the firepower i could,
and my
best CC troops, but i still lost pretty had. A company of Medium mechs
and a necron titan just doens't compare with two Leviathans (or was it
Colossuses?),
neither in price or killing power. If Slann want to take heavy support
equal
to two
Leviathans, they have to bring out the big Titans, and fielding one of
these
in a 3-4k battle is just ludicrous. Besides, any of the Slann titans
can be
taken out in one lucky shot (this
is true for all titans, but Slann titans are even more vulnerable to
this).
Squats are even harder to beat than chaos imho, mostly due to their
high
BP's and cheap Praetorians.
Rune
-----Original Message-----
From: Albert Farr� Benet [mailto:cibernyam_at_...]
Sent: 29. mai 2001 02:00
To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] unballanced armies
Hi,
I don't understand why you keep saying squats have a bad CAF.
Besides from SM, which non-CC-focused army (this is, all but Nids and
Chaos)
fields troops with a minimum CAF of +2 (remember the "1" reroll gives
Squats
an equivalent of almost +2 extra CAF)?.
Eldar? no, they have very low numbers with good CAF.
IG? absolutely no, their assault troops have +1 CAF (and remember
chain of
command and bad morale).
Orks? their best CC troops are +3 while you reroll "1" and "2" (
equivalent
to +3/+4 CAF).
Slann? Yip, they have a little better CAF but you fight them on equal
numbers. Your superior firepower should balance that.
PDF and SOB? Don't make me laugh, PDF couldn't win a CC fight even
against a
tree... and sisters of battle are ajust a little better than PDF.
If you try to beat Nids and Chaos in CC with Squats (or any other
army) then
I can't say nothing, because I can't imagine how (Don't tell me with
big
numbers, because big numbers means big morale disadvantatges, and
playing
against Chaos in CC bad morale means losing CC even before starting).
Even so, a good Squat player will try to shatter the opponent's army
to
pieces before CC to equal numbers, or obviously will lose due to
overwhelming numbers.
I'm just talking of infantry, but I really hate bikers when playing
against
Squats. My figures point that for every squat biker I loose about 1,5
SM
bikes in CC; just compare the break points and you'll see that Bikers
are
really tough (but not invincible, for sure).
Anyone disagrees?
P.S. Anyone tried Squats vs Slann? I think it will be very
interesting,
could show the tactics ability of commanders trying to make maximum
use of
very few units. Kinda empty field, isn't it?
----- Original Message -----
From: Sam <mailto:epic_at_...> Dale
To: netepic_at_yahoogroups.com <mailto:netepic_at_yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 9:25 PM
Subject: Re: [NetEpic ML] unballanced armies
> They have no infantry with good CAF. +2 at most, they have some +6
but
only one pr detachment, so almost every army can beat you in CC. If
you want
to beat your opponent in CC you have to swarm him, which leads to my
other
point.
Ummmm. Bikers with +4 CAF and a move of 30cm... Yeah, you can't storm
buildings, but that's what the mass of artillery and the berserkers in
rhinos are there to deal with.
> Few in numbers. This might sound odd as the companies are quite
large. But
because of the low CAF you have to committ at least 2/3 of a company
to gain
controll of an OP. As the companies are quite expencive I never
controll
more than 3 in a 3k game.
I had 4 companies, 1 support and 1 special in 3k. I was outnumbered by
the
marines, but outgunned and outfought them to a terrifying degree.
> Bad movability.
Bikes, trikes, gyrocopters. And the Overlords just keep going.
Cheers,
Sammy Chaos. Barprop of Slaanesh and Bane of the Organised.
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