Re: [Epic] Creating new version of Epic

From: Aaron P Teske <Mithramuse+_at_...>
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 1997 12:05:17 -0500 (EST)

Excerpts from Epic: 15-Jan-97 Re: [Epic] Creating new ver.. by Mark A
Shieh_at_...
> Brett Hollindale <agro_at_...> writes:
> > As to comparing Squat SHV's to titans, lets do that!
> >
> > A Colossus costs the same as a Reaver, so...
> >
> > The Colossus has [snip]
> >
> > To me this adds up to a unit with at least 6 titan weapon slots, with 6
> > void shields and a 1+ save all round that always first fires.

I'm kinda confused as to where the original poster got a Barrage Missile
Launcher *and* a Multiple Rocket Launcher; the Colossus have four
missiles, 6 BP each (opposed to 8 for the Titan weapons) with a -1 save
mod (0 and -2 for the MRL and Barrage) and 100 cm range (100cm and LOS,
I think). The Cyclops has even worse missiles, at 4 BP each and a 0
save mod; having 6 instead of 4 does not help appreciably. He was
correct on the 8d6 worth of battlecannon, though -- Reavers cannot match
that firepower in one round, though their survivability counts for
something in terms of overall fire.

> > The Reaver [snip]
> >
> > The Reaver has 3 titan weapon slots, 4 void shields and generally a 2+
> > saving throw from the front.
>
> I agree with you up to here.
>
> > Both are Special Cards. Both have the same CAF. Both cost 500 pts.
>
> Personally, I've never faced *a* Reaver Titan. I've faced *a*
> Warlord Titan once (Chaos Titan). So IMHO, The Reaver is a Company
> Card, and costs 1000 for 3.

He could be basing his points off Marines or IG, say, but then the
question of support troops/other units enters the picture, which
severely muddies the waters... but I have to agree, a 500 point Reaver
is a rare sight these days, as far as I can tell. (Look at White Dwarf
battle reports... I think all the ones with Imperials in them since TL
came out have had Reaver BGs in them.)

> Anyways, my take on the power levels is that the Colossus can
> dish out about 50% more, but in my experience is a lot more fragile.
> There are many weapons that don't affect Titans. The Super
> Lifta-Droppa, for instance, can only affect Titans by dropping another
> unit on top of it. When facing void-shield penetrating weapons, the
> Reaver is much more resilient. I admit that my Vibro-Cannon batteries
> still can't punch through the Colossus's armor, but that's because I
> have bad luck frequently.

More like I've had some good luck on my armor saves. You don't have to
roll to hit, after all....

>The damage rolls on the legs just don't
> affect a long ranged/fire support Reaver all that much most of the
> time.

Not to mention, titans have many 100cm weapons, while heavy troops,
vibrocannon and (incidentally ;-) Colossi have 75cm weapons. Given the
slow rate of advance of a Colossus, those two or more turns of fire are
a killer.

>Also, the Colossus just isn't very customizable. The only
> thing that can be done to it is to mount a Starfury on it, and I don't
> consider that to be an improvement 90% of the time.

Hellfury, and you get worse missiles and battlecannon. And who the heck
put on those melta-cannon?!? Yeah, they're nice, but I'd rather have
something that can kill the enemy *before* they get within 35cm....

> I'd say that a Colossus is a better deal than the Reaver, but
> not the Reaver Battlegroup. I wouldn't give a clear advantage to
> either side in a 3 Reaver vs. 2 Colossus BG, unless the Reavers have 3
> one-shots... Then it's pretty clear that the cheese wins.

Saying no one-shots, I'd say the outcome depends on starting setup. One
on one, starting at 80 cm a Colossus should win handily. (A Colossus
has a slightly less than 50% chance of dropping a Reaver in one salvo.)
Increase the starting distance to 100cm (Colossus at the front of the
Squat Deployment zone, Reaver near the back of its) and the Colossus
could well be in trouble -- it certainly won't have six void shields by
the time it gets in range of the Reaver, if it does.

> > In my estimation, a Colussus can face two reavers and be on relatively
> > equal footing.

No. While this does depend slightly on configuration, multiple targets
have a distinct advantage against a single enemy, especially if the
multiple targets don't always die when they fail a save. I don't think
two Colossi vs. a Reaver BG would fare too well either, mainly for this
reason. If the Reaver BG is configured for Titan-killing (two Titans
with 3x Gatling Blaster or 2x GB and FCC or VC/QC, and another Titan
with VCs, say) I wouldn't give the Squats a chance. (Unless one side is
very lucky/unlucky....)

> IMHO, it all depends on whether the Reavers are designed to be
> Titan/SHV killers. Reavers are much more cusomizable, and the
> Colossus is only about average at killing infantry. The Reaver can be
> much better at it.

Only if you're willing to sacrifice range; Vulcan Mega-Bolters are
wonderous weapons, but only fire 25cm. Gatling Blasters are nice too,
but only hit on a 5+. I just don't shoot at infantry much with my
Colossus, 'cause I'm going after the medium armor.... ^_^

                    Aaron Teske
                    Mithramuse+_at_...
                    Squat Leader, Den'Len Fetch
Received on Wed Jan 15 1997 - 17:05:17 UTC