Re: [Epic] Psychic Phase [was: Re: Titan Legions]

From: Aaron P Teske <Mithramuse+_at_...>
Date: Sun, 19 Jan 1997 14:37:09 -0500 (EST)

Well, while I agree with what Mark said, I figured I'd add my own
analysis to the mix, especially since Mark cut a few things I wanted to
reply to. So:

Excerpts from Epic: 19-Jan-97 Re: [Epic] Psychic Phase [w.. by Brett
> Overlord Airships Companies.
> Go to high altitude, move and FF death on anything (cause you can see it
> all...)

Well, not quite; you still can't see critters in woods. It's just like
any other flyer on high... I've seen proposals for using the Imperial
planes (probably the bomber, but I'm not sure) as a spotter by just
flying them up and down one's backfield, shooting at things that get too
close. (Which is why I think it was the bomber suggested for this.

Mind you, I'm not trying to say that ability isn't useful, it's just not
unique in any way.

> Fixed 50/50 save (better than anything except an avatar) and if you fail
> this save, there is still a 2 in 3 chance that you save on a 1+ all round!

And a very distinct 1 in 6 chance that any shot will kill you, straight
up, no saving throw. This has killed most of my Overlords, though it
usually takes some doing. And then there was the time the first shot
fired at my Overlord took it down....

> More firepower than any other 250 pts unit... What more do you want?

Not much, really. The Overlord is one of the best values in terms of
firepower and survivabiliy for the points in the game. This is rarely
disputed, and why I try not to field a company of them in anything less
than 5000 points. (Though if someone says he's going to try something
on me, I'm a bit less inclined to stick to that for a 4000 point game.)

> Guild Biker Forces.
> The best bikes in the game (+4 CAF) and almost the cheapest. (Only IG get
> cheaper bikes and then only just cheaper.)


Squat Bike Force: 22 _at_ 600 = 27.3 each
IG Bike Company: 16 _at_ 300 = 18.8 each
Marine Ravenwing: 15 _at_ 400 = 26.7 each
Wind Rider Host: 25 _at_ 650 = 26.0 each
Ork Kult of Speed: 15 _at_ 400 = 26.7 each

Looks to me like the Squats have the most expensive bikes, though
certainly one of the two best. (The other being the Eldar jetbikes,
though skimming is a mixed blessing these days.) And no complaints
about the Ravenwing being DA only -- I've seen it fielded too many times
for that. People like it, and include it in their force.

>And if these stumpy bikes ever
> break (not likely!) they don't vanish like IG bikes!

And the IG are cheap to compensate, and if you keep them in command they
won't vanish to begin with.

> Super Heavy Vehicles.
> Move and then FF. (No one else does that!)

Well, there are several IG vehicles I could name... the CapImp, which
doesn't really count these days, the Leviathan (which Squats build, so)
and then the Ordinatus SHVs.

> COLOSSI:- Have spotters for their one shot barrage missiles so that they are
> always direct fire.

You *really* need to watch your phrasing. "One shot barrage missiles"
makes it sound like the Colossus has the Titan weapon on board. It
doesn't -- it just has four *single*-barrage missiles. And the
Gyrocopter tends to die fairly quickly anyway.

>Have more forepower than any other 500pt unit (8d6 hit
> on a 4+ save at -2, huge barrage weapon, 4 one shot missiles, 1d6 range 50
> hit on 3+ save at -3, and a mere 16d6 of bolters) And lets not forget the
> support gyrocopter... (Did I mention a 1+ all roud save with 6 - count them
> - six! void shields)

I won't dispute the firepoower, as I've said before, but the 1+ save and
the void shields don't mean much if you actually concentrate fire to
take the thing out. An IG Heavy Co. plus an Arty Co. would probably
take out a Colossus in one go-round; two Tyranid Doms *will* take out a
Colossus in one go, while two Colossi have a *much* harder time taking
out one Dom. (Trust me -- I've tried.) Eldar have vibrocannon, which
will ignore the void shields; Orks have Gutbuster ball rounds, which
will knock down all the void shields and then hit with a -4 save mod.
Orks also have Weirdboyz, or some of the Kustom buggies. There are
*lots* of ways to take out a Colossus.

> LAND TRAINS:- Try a land train with a single battle car (Rad Bomb). For 350
> points you get thue usual 1+ all round save, a misserable 3 void shields,
> you actually need to place orders! and only 4d6 hit on a 4+ save at -2, the
> usual huge barrage weapon, 8d6 of bolters and the rad bomb... One shot,
> unlimited range, 8 barrage points ignoring cover save at -1, **12cm**
> diameter template!!

Personally, I like getting more cars so you get the free Berserkers. ^_^
 Again, the Land Train is a solid SHV, but that's how the Squats build
them. (After all, we don't do medium tanks.) I've never actually
gotten much use out of my Rad bombs, though; yeah, 12cm templates are
nice, but it just means my opponent watches his spacing more with his

> CYCLOPS:- Just your average SHV - 5 void shields, 1+ all round save, a close
> range weapon pack with one notable exception - the 100cm hit on a 2+ save at
> -6 blows through void shields does +6 damage on titans CHEDDITE PROJECTOR!!!
> (The defense vs a cheddite projector as written in a WD somewhere is "Well,
> you COULD win initiative...")

Mmm-hmm. "Blows through void shields"? Hardly. The only time I've
dropped more than two void shields with a Hellfury Cannon was the time I
fired at a Greater Daemon, who used the "Crystalline Body" card to
reflect the shot back. I knocked three shields off my own Cyclops. If
I recall correctly, the one Ordinatus SHV is actually a worse offender
in this respect -- it gets a couple precursor shots to knock down
shields, and then not only hits the target square on the Titan hit chart
but all surrounding ones as well. Fun, huh?

More seriously, I've never found the Hellfury all that useful. <shrug>

> Artillery.
> Super heavy artillery that can still fire when close assaulted! (You can't
> pin a SHV with smaller than a SHV, and unpinned SHV's can target anything
> they want...)

As Mark said, yay, one parting shot. <shrug> Kinda like the other two
basilisks in an IG battery can still fire if one of the three is in CC.

>And of course the squat artillery is cheaper and better than
> anyone elses artillery... (Longer range, better save mod, ignores cover -
> thank God they only save on a 5+.)

Eh. I've never been impressed with the Goliath; it's too obvious, and
the only major artillery piece the Squats get. So it's very easy to
prepare a counter for, unlike the Imperial guns. The "everything in one
model" thing I could do without, as well. Finally, the Imperial Bombard
*always* gets 9 BPs and the same -3 save mod with nearly the same range.
 When was the last time you needed to fire a shot two meters?
Personally, I'd rather have an IG Arty company.

> Snap fire weapons.
> Again super heavy! CAN target ground units. (NOT the best snap fire weapon
> in the game - but close!)

Not super heavy. And the only snap fire unit in the game with the "no
ground target" restriction is the Imperial Hydra. I assume you're
taking the Firestorm as the best snap fire weapon? (That's my take on

> Gyrocopters.
> Faster than other skimmers, 360 degree fire arc (better than other
> skimmers,but cheese IS round isn't it?), the usual (for squats) outrageous
> break point...

Outrageous? Seven of nine fairly easy-to-kill units? <shrug> Yeah,
'copters are useful for harrassing things with less range, but anything
else is going to shoot back.

> Other units:
> Other units that cost the same as anyone elses units and have better break
> points thus giving up VP harder than other armies... (eg. Squat tarantulas
> have a break point of 4 out of 5 instaed of the usual 3 out of 5.)

Yes, Squat units give up VP harder, but when they give up VP they give
up more. Not so much in the support cards, since the units tend to be
smaller, but (for example) the Biker Force coughs up 8 VPs instead of
the usual six, while Gyrocopter Wings give 7 VPs for a 550 point unit.
That's the price we pay, and it just means you (the opponent) have to
work a little harder for a bit more reward. <shrug>

Each army has its share of good units; Squats have a couple more, but
also pay more at the start and at the finish. Yes, you can "cheese out"
with Squats, but you can do so with any other race. You just need to
find someone who does not do these things. That is, if your Squat
opponent is fielding two Overlord companies in a 3000 point game, find
someone else to play with. ^_- (And ask him to take something else if
he's fielding even one Overlord company in 3000 points....)

                    Aaron Teske
                    Squat Leader, Den'Len Fetch
Received on Sun Jan 19 1997 - 19:37:09 UTC

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