RE: [Epic] -Chaos- Tactic Critique

From: Miller, Chris <CMiller_at_...>
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 09:28:46 -0500

>> >> > If a LOB dies, his followers are vulnerable to morale checks.
>> >> > If the Reaver dies it just blows up.
>> >
>> > Oh, come on. That's because you've taken mortal followers in
>> >a Chaos army, not because it's a LoB. The only time mortal troops get
>> >out of this one is if they're taken under a Marine Company, IIRC.
>> >That's hardly the fault of the LoB.
>>
>> ----> That's something the LOB does and a Reaver doesn't. Also, you have
>> to
>> take at least 3 cards of followers for it, so it's going to apply every
>> time you
>> use the LOB. It _may_ not matter in that game but it will _never_ matter
>> with the reaver. (we're not assigning "fault" we're comparing goods &
>> bads
>> of two different units. It's a minor negative.)
>
> The "at least 3 cards of followers" thing I've *never* seen to
>be a hindrance. People tend not to like the GDs enough that they like
>to load up on the little guys anyways. I rarely see a GD with fewer
>than 4 minion cards, so having to take 3 cards of followers is hardly
>a restriction.
-----> Having to take support cards in and of itself is not a negative.

> Also, I am assigning fault, because I consider it relevant.
>The LoB has the follower morale vulnerability because it's a property
>of the minions, not the LoB. I don't consider it a pro or con of the
>LoB, because these minions can't be taken without the restriction,
>while the LoB can be taken with lesser daemon followers to avoid the
>restriction.
-----> 1)The LOB has to have a minimum number followers.
           2) If it dies, those followers must take a morale check
           3) They are also subject to additional morale checks for the
               rest of the game.
         4) So, if the LOB croaks, it can break a portion of your army.
                Sure, you can take all daemons to avoid this, but then
                    you are altering your army structure to avoid this
                weakness, so it's still affecting what you do.
           5) A reaver titan will never affect the morale of any unit,
              nor will it's destruction result in a chance for units to
              break.
           To me, it matters when a unit has additional baggage that
        could cause 3-5 other detachments to have a new vulnerability
        if it's destroyed. Sure, compared to other GD's it's irrelevant
        but this is LOB vs a Reaver Titan - which is more effective for
        Chaos?
                If you want a specific situation, say I have 800 pts to spend.
I can take a LOB and 300 pts, or a Reaver and 300 pts of support
cards for open slots on GD's I already have.

> Basically, I consider the morale check to be a weakness of the
>mortal followers, not the LoB. Besides, Bloodletters are fun, and
>Flesh Hounds actually understand the concept of moving faster than a
>brisk stroll, unlike most of the non-mechanized Chaos army.

----> The followers are cetainly affected by it, but only if the LOB
dies,
        so you can't just say "it's the followers fault". It's a disadvantage
        when comparing the LOB to a reaver titan - not huge, but
        something to think about. We've been comparing 2 units for
        Chaos with the same points cost.

>> >> > So how is the LOB better?
>> >>
>> >> I don't recall ever saying the the LoB *was* better...
>> >[snip]
>> >> I'd have to say the Reaver is better (better weapons,
>> >> very flexible in its battlefield role), but the LoB is more
>> >> fun.
>> >
>> > Nope, I heard lots of comments that the LoB was better than a
>> >Bloodthirster or Angron, but that's not real hard. Also, in the
>> >pre-TL days, the LoB was nice because it allowed you 3-5 minion cards,
>> >unlike the Reaver, which ate up one of those slots. Taking a LoB
>> >opens up a few options on how you can field an army, while the lone
>> >Reaver just eats up support.
>>
>> -----> Reavers are Special Cards, not support cards - don;t take up one
>> of the 3-5 slots - they're 1 per "company" card.
>
> Reavers are support cards here (well, minion cards). In the
>army we're discussing (Chaos), there are no special cards. You can
>take 3-5 Reavers per GD if you really wanted to. I consider it a lot
>more relevant to compare elements of the same force, rather than
>something like Space Marine Land Raiders vs. Blood Axe Land Raiders,
>or a lone loyal Warlord vs. an identical Chaos Warlord w/ tail. Some
>armies are just better at certain things.
>
> My SM/TL knowledge seems to be getting flaky these days, but
>I'm pretty sure about what I claim for this posting.
>
>Mark
-----> Reavers and LOB's are both available to Chaos, so they ARE
        elements of the same force.BTW- Do you have a reaver titan support
        (small) card?
                If you want to add the ability to add more support cards as
 a plus for the LOB, I could see that, except that you have to spend the
 points for those cards, so to me it balances out.

Chris Miller


>
Received on Wed Jul 30 1997 - 14:28:46 UTC