Re: [Epic] marine chapters (was: Orks with LandRaiders)

From: J. Michael Looney <mlooney_at_...>
Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 13:16:26 -0500

Mike Bowen wrote:

> here's some stuff from WHFB 3rd ed. pg 50
>
> if 300 yards is taken as the range of the longbow, our models
> must be able to engage the enemy at a tabletop range that reflects the
> distance. a model is about 1" high, which taking a humanto be 2 yards
> high(6feet),means he can fire an arrow 150". this is too far for game
> purposes, as(game tables are too small).
>
> for the sake of the game, we will assume that missile ranges use a
> scale of of 1" = 10 yards.....preserves their differences, without
> havingto move our battlesinto the garden.
>
> also, each phase in the game used a unspecified amount of time,
> like the move phase took more time than than rally, the reserve move
> used more time than the move phase did, allowing troops to move farther.
>
> all in all, a well thoughtout system for TABLETOP gaming, for
> european combat before 1630. Sorry, some people say that GW games
> are always set up to refight Waterloo, but they really try to refight
> Crecy or the war of the roses.

That would be me. :-) For what it is worth WH40K (RT) does not use that range scale. It is
stated that 1" = 2 meters. (page 6). The current WH40K rules do not state what their scale is.
And also a set of rules that does 1" = 10 yards would work just hunk fine for a game up to 1865
or so. Why do I say Waterloo instead of Crecy? Artillery. At Waterloo (and other battles of
that era) charging the guns was an option, more or less. Real quick, how many of you's response
to an artillery company/detachment is to send some fast CC troops at, vs. blast it with counter
battery fire?

If you charge guns, and expect it to work, your fighting Waterloo
If you counter battery guns, and expect it to work, your fighting Kursk
If you just bomb them from the Air and expect it to work your fighting Desert Storm.

>
> however, this system broke down in 40k, with fast vehicles moving
> farther than they could shoot. this emphesizied Hand to Hand above all
> else, again not a bad choice for Heroic Space Combat in the dark future.
>

For what it is worth, most modern (writen after say 1985) micro armor games have tanks moving
farther than they can shoot, but then again most of them are going with 15 min. moves. To quote
some data that I happen to have laying on the desk next to me: (Command Decision (2nd ed))

German Infantry:
Move 8" 16" if running/charge
Effective small arms range 10"

Panzer IVF2 (call this a Leman Russ)
Move 50"/25" (Road/off road)
It has a chance (1 in 10) of hitting at 50"
It's effective range is (depending on ammo type) 15"-20"
You get 2 shots a turn.

Now CD uses platoon sized stands, so that one stand/model represnts 4-5 tanks or about 18-25 men
which tends to change some things around somewhat but you still see what I am talking about here.

Games can be written that let you play on fairly small tables, but reflect the real ratio for
weapon systems.

 
> E40k made things worse by reducing ranges even more than SM.
> Space Marine ranges were pretty close to 40k
>
> 45cm ranges are just way too short for main weapon fire. for any
> pretense of "realism", when some units can close assault at that distance.

Well, if we were not fighting Waterloo or Cercy we would not be trying to close assault all that
much, now would we?
Received on Mon Sep 01 1997 - 18:16:26 UTC