Re: [Epic] marine chapters (was: Orks with LandRaiders)

From: Mike Bowen <mbowen_at_...>
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 1997 15:20:29 -0500 (CDT)

On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, J. Michael Looney wrote:

>snip of my 1"=10 yard range stuff from WHFB<
> >
> > all in all, a well thoughtout system for TABLETOP gaming, for
> > european combat before 1630. Sorry, some people say that GW games
> > are always set up to refight Waterloo, but they really try to refight
> > Crecy or the war of the roses.
>
> That would be me. :-) For what it is worth WH40K (RT) does not use that range scale. It is
> stated that 1" = 2 meters. (page 6). The current WH40K rules do not state what their scale is.
> And also a set of rules that does 1" = 10 yards would work just hunk fine for a game up to 1865

yep, that scale was for the size of the mini 1"=2 meters=about 2 yards,
so the minis represent 6 foot tall men
which was different from the movement scale, which was differnt from the
shooting range scale

RT 40k used a bunch of scales, but the the primitive weapons,handbows
,thrown
grenades and stuff that had ranges fairly close to the WHFB equivilents.
also with muskets having about the same range as bolters between WHFB
and 40k.... 24"

so i still think the 1" =10 yards is fairly close to ranges in RT
again, a compromise for playability

> or so. Why do I say Waterloo instead of Crecy? Artillery. At Waterloo (and other battles of
> that era) charging the guns was an option, more or less.

an odd thing with the ACW was that for a shorttime in the 1860's the
smoothbore arty was outranged by the infantry rifle, so it was
suicide for the guncrews to "move up the guns and fight" like
was done in the napoleonic age.

with smoothbore cannons of the era, infantry could charge the guns and
only suffer 2-3 rounds from the guns before CC. even better odds if
the troops were mounted as sabres still were an option for taking
out guncrews, let alone spencer repeaters.

the end to these tactics was the QF breach loaders of the 1880s,along
with machine guns. Tactics made for Waterloo did not do well in the
ACW, ad worse in WW1. The generals didn't know how dangeous the new
weapons were at long range

Massed artillery is something that GW refuses to represent in their games,
eventhough it is one of the most important development in "modern" warfare
since A. Gustavus reformed artillery in the 1600's.

also, GW thinks all a cannon shoots is HE, so no smoke, beehive or AP
shells. a battlecannon firing grapeshot would be nice, at times.

I pick Crecy as a model for GW as that is the last time IIRC that cannons
would still blow up 1/16th of the time they were fired. :-)
Besides, there were more banners at Crecy than Waterloo, and banners
are real important in the 400th century.

Waterloo was the last gasp of "heroic combat" You can't beat the assault
on Hougemont(sp?) as a great example as a scenario for a 40k battle,with
whatshisname with the Axe trying get thru the door....

Waterloo isn't a bad choice for describing the GW mindset with rules, I
think that Crecy is a little better.

> Real quick, how many of you's response
> to an artillery company/detachment is to send some fast CC troops at, vs. blast it with counter
> battery fire?
 
heh. off board arty, whats that? its forgotten in the far future....

> For what it is worth, most modern (writen after say 1985) micro armor games have tanks moving
> farther than they can shoot, but then again most of them are going with 15 min. moves. To quote
> some data that I happen to have laying on the desk next to me: (Command Decision (2nd ed))
 
<snip data>

agree here. most of the micro armor i play, range isn't your problem, its
LOS. i play mostly 15mm or 20mm, using squadleader as a base, for smaller
unit actions compaired to CD. With 15mm WW2 minis, just plan on most
weapons always being in range. if you can see it,you can hit it.

does make getting into cover real important, as it is in real life.

> Games can be written that let you play on fairly small tables, but reflect the real ratio for
> weapon systems.

Har! you need a whole warehouse to play Jutland with 1200:1 scale minis...

smaller scales are a real big plus

> Well, if we were not fighting Waterloo or Cercy we would not be trying to close assault all that
> much, now would we?
>

big agree here!

mike
Received on Mon Sep 01 1997 - 20:20:29 UTC