RE: [Epic] Rants. Was SM/TL vs E40K unit costs

From: Miller, Chris <CMiller_at_...>
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:00:32 -0600

> > What it comes down to is that anything that needs to be included in
> the rule
> > set that doesn't make logical sense is included as a quotation from
> "The
> > Codex such-and-such".
> >
>
> <sarcasm>
> So the codexs say that you should never shoot at the enemy commander,
> because that might make you win the battle, you should allways shoot
> at
> the closest group of hostiles, regardless, even if they are not the
> major threat at the time. Which one says that please?
> </sarcasm>
>
> <rant target=GW>
> As it happens that major things that don't make sense in 2nd ed (both
> scales here) aren't covered up by codex quotes. The targeting rules
> are, to put it bluntly, screwed. "You would not be able to see the
> commander/hero/special character in battle with all the smoke and
> explosions going on" Its the dude with the 6 foot back banner
> sticking
> up over he's head. If officers in the 20th century can be spotted by
> things about 2 cm in size at real ranges, much less this knife fight
> range that GW seems to think that warfare is, then why in the HELL
> can't
> you figure out that the person with the banners that double his height
> is the officer in their games? As a side not the "you can't shoot
> officers rule" exists only in SM/TL and WH40K 2nd. Ed. It is not in
> WH40K/RT or AT/SM/CT nor E40K.
> </rant>
>
-------> I'll leave the rest alone, but I will actually defend them on
this. Why? Read On...

Ok, GW postualates a universe where Camo is regarded as cowardly, so
marines wear bright blue or red armor, tanks can be painted bright
yellow, etc. You can assume targeting systems are so advanced it doesn't
matter anymore, or whatever but that's what we're given.

Also, the mini's just look better with banners and ribbons and crap
hanging off of them. It also makes it easier for the players to track
where the important people are. I believe this is the primary reason
they do it, and it's been around a long time. Hell, for a while the
grunt Orks and Eldar were getting back banners, though that's died off a
lot now.

Now, you have mini's done a certain way which includes banners for
commanders, then players say "Well, I'll just target the commanders with
everything, off them, then it's easier to break the grunts." So special
characters start dropping first. People get tired of playing this way -
why bother making a special, all-out paint job & detail level special
charavter if he's just going to get pegged on turn 1? GW doesn't want
this and so make a rule which prohibits targeting characters except
under certain conditions and gives it the handwave that "you can't tell
them apart anyway."
   Now people are complaining that it's unrealistic to do this.No. It's
not. WHAT'S UNREALISTIC IS TO HAVE COMMANDERS WALKING IN TO BATTLE WITH
NO HELMETS AND GIANT FRIGGING BANNERS STUCK ON THEIR BACKS SCREAMING
"SHOOT ME" TO ANY AND ALL IN THE AREA!!!. So what we really ought to do
is ban banners and distinguishing insignia of any kind on officers and
such and make every mini look pretty much the same, thus reconciling
the rule and the miniatures. After all, if you can't tell the officers
apart visually, that pretty much eliminates the complaint that this rule
is unrealistic, right? To allow specific targeting under those
conditions would in itself be unrealistic because it's knowledge the
soldiers wouldn't have, even if the player does. Would that make a
better game? NO! Would it look better? NO! So, it's a compromise. We
think the game looks better this way, but we think sniping all the
leaders detracts from the fun of the game, so we're going to make this
rule, giving us the best of both worlds. If you don't have this rule,
then command units are always targeted first, and it's a valid, though a
bit cheesy, tactic as the rules allow it. So you get a nasty exchange of
fire as soon as people get into range, all the officers fall dead, and
the grunts get to fight the rest of the fight on their own. Didn't like
this type of game, so I have no problem with the rule.
           Someone else made this argument once also during a game. "Why
can't I shoot the guys with the flags? That's not realistic." So I
snapped off the banner pole right there (he'd been whining about a lot
of stuff the whole game and it was taking way too long) and said "What
flag?". Is that what it takes to make this rule make sense? Shall we all
just snap off our banners and have uniform, all tac-trooper marine
armies? Snap the poles off those ork warlords? Replace the Chaos Lord
with a regular Chaos Marine?

        P.S. This is also why you can't specifically target the heavy
weapons trooper in a squad. Not so much a reality issue as a game issue.
Turn one, all the officers get croaked, turn two, all the heavy weapons
guys drop. Great game.

        It's a better looking game with banners & such, but if you have
them people will try to use that to justify sniping the special units.
So you can either allow this (bad game), delete all banners and
decoration (bad looking), or just outlaw it thru a rule and leave the
banners etc. in (good for game, good for mini's).


        Chris Miller
Received on Wed Mar 04 1998 - 18:00:32 UTC