Re: [Epic] The return of Looney Rants!

From: Scott Shupe <shupes_at_...>
Date: Thu, 08 May 1997 18:44:18 -0400

David Lado wrote:
>
> I would consider the ability to destroy a 650 pt goff mob before it even
> makes it's first move both increadibly cheesy and show stopping.

        Well for one thing, this is only a problem for ork players,
who have humungous infantry units with poor morale, which chaos is
really good against. Since I've never had the pleasure of facing
an Ork army, I can't really comment on your example, other than to
point out that it would be remarkably less effective against any
other army. And chaos players are in a similar bind when playing
against eldar or tyranids (who both have powerful psychic attacks).
I wouldn't really call either army "incredibly cheesy," I just think
the designers don't playtest new units/rules for crap.

        For another thing, you're using a completely different
definition of cheesy than what I'm used to.

> Sure, most chaos cards are useless, but if you have a card that can
> potentially kill 10-20 units, you don't need very many for them to make
> a major impact on the game.

        10-20 units? I've *never* taken out that many models with
a single chaos card. I have gotten lucky with Mortarion once or
twice, but he's not a card, so... (yeah, he is pretty powerful but
then also he's slow and short ranged and pinnable).

> Even the most honerable of chaos players
> (or is that an oxymoron? ;) cannot escape the fact that he must field
> greater demons and he must use his chaos cards if he wants an even
> chance at winning

        Of course he has to use his cards, he's paying for them
after all. The equivalent in other armies would be to take less
points than your opponent - who then has a better chance of winning?

> Magic the gathering has strategy too, that doesn't mean I want to
> play it when I thought I'd be playing space-marine. My experience
> with chaos is that half my loses result directly from cards
> such as burning body, or lure of slaneesh, or from mortarions fart.

        Don't use orks then. *shrug* Some armies are just too
good at killing other armies. I never take my chaos army against
the bugs anymore.

> I don't consider this out-thinking an opponent, because what your
> opponent is thinking and doing has no real effect on your ability
> to use these powers.

        You are playing a GW game here, luck is always a huge factor.
Hell, if you're using the normal movement rules, you might as well just
roll initiative three times, and whoever wins 2 out of 3 is the winner,
no thinking involved. And it saves you time on setting & cleaning up.

        The chaos cards are annoying but just about every army has
ways to minimize their effectiveness.

> And I don't want to single out chaos either.

        Oh? You did a pretty good job of doing so. =)

> I call these things "cheesy" not because they are unfair, but because
> they make the game less fun. They cause arguements and generally
> detract from the game.

        It's just a bump you have to get over when playing GW
games. We used to argue a lot (mostly about eldar stuff), but
after awhile we just accepted things as they were and started
trying to deal with them.

> It was not a slur against chaos players (don't be so sensitive). I
> think it is the very nature of the chaos army that they can't win
> w/o using their chaos cards (and yes, I think hive mind cards are
> just as bad). If you take away the chaos cards, are any of the
> greater demons worth 300 pts? Not by a long shot.

        I'd say Mort & maybe Magnus are, providing you still
had something card-like to keep them alive.

> And chaos is
> forced to field greater demons, so they have no choice but to use
> the cards or they shoot themselves in the foot. It's not a curse
> against chaos players, but it's still annoying to know that the
> only recourse I have against this sort of "strategy" is to warm up
> my dice and hope that 6 shows up sooner rather than later.

        The same could be said of initiative rolls, or crucial
armor saves, hit rolls, deviation rolls, etc etc. A failed armor
save on a titan could easily win the game for one side, and yet
I don't see you complaining about that.

Scott
shupes_at_...
Received on Thu May 08 1997 - 22:44:18 UTC