[Epic] Correct Infantry Comparsions

From: Sean Smith <seans_at_...>
Date: Tue, 02 Dec 1997 17:49:20 +1300

Please dump my previous message containing infantry
comparsions and replace with the one below.

COMPARSIONS OF THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF INFANTRY AND THEIR SUPPORTS
  
I hope this provokes discussion on how to best use the various troops
included in it.
   
Executive Summary
-----------------

- Jervis was right in the last Q&A. Imperial guard infantry point for point
  have the same firepower as marines on overwatch. Also when imperial
  guard are supported by hellhounds, demolishers or ogyrns, their assault
  value is better than normal space marines supported by vindicators or
  dreadnoughts.
  
- Terminators combine with dreadnoughts or vindicators (especially
  vindicators) make a very powerful combination.
  
- Nobz point for point are the best orks. Orks overall have a greater
  assualt value than marines, but pay for it by having less infantry
  firepower and having short range indirect fire. Ork dreadnoughts seem
  to be a bit of a fizzer.

- Eldar have the second best assault values (after Tryanids), but have low
  survivability. They compensate for this by having high speed (i.e jump
  packs), long range anti-tank (warengines of vaul, phantoms titans),
  excellent disrupt weapons (e.g night spinners) and transports.
  
- Chaos cultist have the same firepower as marines on overwatch, beastmen
  with champions are excellent assault troops. Daemons (particularly
  greater daemons) have excellent assault values and survivability, but are
  generally slow.
  
- Tyranids have the best assault troops of any race, but they don't have
  the survivability of Chaos or the speed of Eldar.
 

Key
---
 
+ armour, speed movement and '#' are support units stats 
* for purposes of comparison with the normal imperial guard with 
  supports        
# Number of units it takes to equal the assault value of one space 
  marine unit. Note a unit can't be assaulted by more than two 
  units once. The higher the number, the worse it is.
Example
-------
An example of how the firepower and assault comparsions were calculated,
using a normal space marine.
Normal firepower - 2/30=0.66667 (rounded down to .07)
Assault value    - 6/30=0.2
With firepower and assault values, the higher it is, the better it is.
Note that were a unit as a special ability, such as assault, cavalry,
jump packs etc, it has already been included in their stats.  
                                     TABLE
                                     -----
                                     
SPACE MARINES
                Fire Power  Assault  Armour  Range  Movement   #
               (per point) (per point)
Normal 
 Normal fire    0.07        0.20      5+    30cm   10cm      1.00
 Overwatch      0.13         -        -      -      -        -
 (Has Stubborn) 
 Normal*             
  + Dreadnought 0.07        0.18      6+    45cm   15cm      0.75+
  + Vindicator  0.10	    0.17      6+    15cm   25cm      1.00+
   
Assault
   Normal	0.06	    0.24     5+     15cm   20cm      0.75
   Overwatch    0.12         -       -       -      -         -
(Has stubborn) 
Devastators     0.10        0.08     5+     45cm   10cm      2.00
Scouts	        0.07        0.19     5+     30cm   10cm      1.00
(have inflitrate & stubborn, can't have Rhinos)
Terminators     0.05        0.16     5+     30cm   10cm      1.00
 + Dreadnought  0.08        0.22     6+     45cm   15cm      0.75+
 + Vindicator   0.12        0.22     6+     15cm   25cm      1.00+
(Has save & stubborn, can only use land raiders as ground transport)
Bikes           0.10        0.20      4+    15cm   35cm      1.33  
(Has Stubborn)
 
Note - Clearly Vindacators in combination with Terminators are 
       the deadlist close combat and firefight option. However
       dreadnoughts have a 45cm range, which great against
       Eldar aspect warriors with jump packs. It appears to be 
       a waste of time to use Vindicators and Dreadnoughts to support
       normal space marines.
IMPERIAL GUARD
              Fire Power    Assault  Armour  Range  Movement    #
              (per point) (per point)
                                              
Normal          0.14          0.14     3+     30cm    10cm     3.00
Normal       
 +Orgyn         0.13          0.25     5+     15cm    10cm     0.75+
 +Hellhounds    0.19          0.19     5+     15cm    20cm     1.00+
 +Demolisher    0.17          0.17     6+     15cm    15cm+    0.75+
Heavy Weapons   0.14          0.07     3+     45cm    10cm     6.00
Rough Riders    0.10          0.20     4+     15cm    20cm     0.66
Note - Jevis seems to right about the firepower of the imperial
       gaurd. The imperial guard fire power (if moving normally)
       is equal to the fire power of space marines on overwatch. Also
       normal imperial guard troops, with support troops, have an
       equal or better assault value than normal space marines, supported
       by dreadnoughts or vindicators. Orgyns provide the best assault 
       value, hellhounds give equal assault and firepower, demolishers 
       have slightly less firepower and assault value than hellhounds, but 
       have better armour. The assault values for the imperial 
       guard are easily beaten by Chaos, Eldar and Tryanids, the imperial
       guard will need to use artillery to reduce their strength before 
       they get into close combat.
       
ORKS
              Fire Power    Assault  Armour  Range  Movement    #
              (per point) (per point)
              
Ork Boyz         0.11         0.22     4+     30cm    10cm     1.33
Ork Boyz
 +Stompa         0.22         0.15     5+     45cm    15cm     1.25+
 +Dreadnought    0.09         0.24     5+     45cm    15cm     1.00+
 +Squiggoth      0.11         0.20     5+     30cm    15cm     1.20+
  [assault value calculated on average die roll of 3.5. Assumed 1 Ork
   unit per mob]
  
Nobz             0.07         0.29     4+     30cm    10cm     0.75
(Has save)
Shooty Boyz      0.12         0.06     4+     45cm    10cm     3.00
Boarboyz         0.08         0.23     5+     15cm    20cm     1.00
Starboyz         0.09         0.27     4+     30cm    10cm     1.00
Stormboyz        0.08         0.25     4+     15cm    20cm     1.00
Kommandos        0.08         0.17     4+     30cm    10cm     1.33
Gretchin         0.20         0.20     3+     30cm    10cm     3.00
Gretchin
 +Stompa         0.14         0.14     5+     45cm    15cm     1.25+
 +Dreadnought    0.13         0.22     5+     45cm    15cm     1.00+
 +Squiggoth      0.11         0.20     5+     30cm    15cm     1.20+
  [assumed 2 getchin per mob]
Note - Nobz have the best assault and armour value (because of the save), 
       but it doesn't look good, you normally don't have an army 
       consisting solely of officers. Gretchin have a higher assault and 
       firepower values than nobz, but only two thirds of them can assault
       an equal points value of normal space marines. Overall Orks have a
       higher assault values than space marine and imperial guard units, 
       they pay for this by having lower fire power and shorter range
       indirect fire. Ork dreadnoughts seem to be a bit of a fizzer.
       
ELDAR
              Fire Power    Assault  Armour  Range  Movement    #
              (per point) (per point)
              
Guardians        0.25         0.13     3+     15cm    15cm     3.00
Scouts           0.10         0.10     4+     30cm    15cm     3.00
(Has infiltrate)
Aspect Warrior   0.10         0.40     4+     15cm    15cm     0.66
Swooping Hawks/  0.07         0.29     4+     15cm    30cm     0.66
Warp Spiders 
Dark Reapers     0.05         0.10     4+     15cm    15cm     1.33
Aspect+Exarch    0.09         0.46     4+     15cm    15cm     0.60
Aspect+Exarch+   0.07         0.33     4+     15cm    30cm     0.60
Swooping Hawks
Aspect Warrior
 +Dreadnought   0.13          0.21     6+     45cm     15cm    0.80
Note - If you thought nobz had a high assault value, the aspect+exarch
       assault value is even higher. This is compensated for by aspect 
       warriors having low fire power and shorter range. The best 
       combination for aspect warriors seems to be the aspect+exarch+
       swooping hawk combination. This allows Eldar to assault troops 
       from outside of the normal 30cm range of infantry weapons.            
   
CHAOS MARINES & CULTISTS
              Fire Power    Assault  Armour  Range  Movement    #
              (per point) (per point)
              
Marines
  Normal Fire   0.07          0.20     4+     30cm     10cm     1
  Overwatch     0.13           -       -       -        -       -
Veterans        
  Normal Fire   0.06          0.18     4+     30cm     10cm     1
  Overwatch     0.12           -       -       -        -       -
(Has Inflitrate)             
Noise Marines   0.09          0.07     4+     45cm     10cm     2
(Has Stubborn)
Thousand Sons
Normal Fire     0.06          0.19     4+     30cm     10cm     1
  Overwatch     0.13            -      -        -       -       -
Marines
 +Dreadnought   0.05          0.20     6+     45cm     15cm     0.6+
[assumed 1 chaos marine unit per squad]
Terminators
Normal Fire     0.06          0.17     4+     30cm     10cm     1
  Overwatch     1.11           -       -       -        -       -
(Has save)
Terminator
 + Dreadnought  0.05          0.19     6+     45cm     15cm+   0.60+
Bike Squad      0.10  	      0.20     4+     15cm     35cm    1.50
Cutlists        0.14          0.14     3+     30cm     10cm    3.00
Beastmen        n/a           0.20     4+     n/a      10cm    1.50
1 Champion per  n/a           0.33     4+     n/a      10cm    1.00
squad
[assumed only one unit per squad] 
CHAOS DAEMONS
              Fire Power    Assault  Armour  Range  Movement    #
              (per point) (per point)
              
Bloodthirster   n/a           0.21     6+     n/a      15cm    0.50
(Has save) 
Great Unc. One  0.07          0.29     6+     15cm     10cm    0.50
(Has save & psyker)
Keeper of       n/a           0.32     6+     n/a      15cm    0.50
Sercets
(Has save, psyker & stubborn) 
Lord of Change  n/a           0.29     6+     n/a      25cm    0.50
(Has save, psyker & skimmer)
Bloodletters    n/a           0.36     4+     n/a      15cm    0.75
(Has rampage+save)
Flesh hounds/   n/a           0.25     5+     n/a      30cm    0.75
Slaanesh fiends
(Has save)
Flamers         n/a           0.27     4+     n/a      30cm    0.75
Daemonette/     n/a           0.27     4+     n/a      15cm    0.75
Pink horror/
Plague bearers
(Has save)
 
Note - Cultists are really only useful for their firepower and to act as
       screen for other units. Because they have the same fire power as
       marines overwatch when moving normally, they can advance and 
       provide covering fire at the sametime. Beastmen with champions are 
       excellent assault troops, only being bettered by the bloodletters. 
       With daemons it really is a case of horses for courses i.e choose 
       the daemon which is best for doing the job in hand. Daemon assault 
       values are not as good as the Eldar aspect warriors. However Chaos 
       can concentrate more assault value at a single point and daemons have 
       greater survivability (e.g daemon have saves and armour of 6+). 
       Chaos marines are very similar to normal marines. Personally I would 
       weight a Chaos army more in favour of daemons, cultists and beastmen.        Only using marines for roles that can't be carried out by daemons, 
       cultists or beastmen, such as drop pods and getting around the
       flanks using bikes. 
             
TYRANIDS
              Fire Power    Assault  Armour  Range  Movement    #
              (per point) (per point)       
Termagents      0.14          0.28     3+     15cm     15cm    1.33
Genestealers    n/a           0.60     4+     n/a      15cm    0.50
Lictors         n/a           0.23     6      n/a      15cm    0.75
(Has inflitrate)
Carnifexs       0.8           0.15     6      n/a      15cm    0.50
(has rampage)
Zoathropes      n/a           0.13     6      n/a      10cm    1.33
(Has psyker)
Note - The beauty of the Tryanid brood is that they can create great assault
       detachments. The problem with the Tryanids is they lack long 
       range fire power. Which means that Tryanids will face lots
       heavy weapon troops and anti-tank weapon fire. Also they don't have 
       jump packs or cavalry, so they will take longer to reach the enemy,
       hereby giving the enemy more time to shot at them. Tryanid players 
       need to make the best use of cover possible and try and take out the 
       enemy artillery and anti-tank weapons, once this has been done the 
       termagents can act as screen for the rest of the brood, when 
       advancing across open ground. Tryanids should use artillery, flyers 
       and mycetic spores to destroy enemy anti-tank weapons and artillery.
       
       
-- 
 Sean Smith 
 
 Home - Seans_at_...
 
-- 
Received on Tue Dec 02 1997 - 04:49:20 UTC

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