Re: [Epic] Ahhh! An Imperator!

From: John Chapman <john_at_...>
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:29:27 +1100 (EST)

> > Close combat is an option, but you have to be able to get another titan
> > armed with a close combat weapon that close - not an easy prospect. In
> > truth, I have never faced an Imperator, but I would be reasonably confident
> > in taking one down if I was playing with Eldar. Concentrate on Pulse Lasers
> > and Flyers to bring the shields down (perhaps D-cannon to get some 'cheap'
        Hmmmm if youre playing Eldar the CC option is by far the most likely
to succeed. Pulse Lasers - great with a 60 Cm range but (Ok assume 3 Phantoms
with 2 Pulsars each (1200 points compared to <1000 for the Imp) are going to
have about 21 (6*3.5 shots ) for about 11 hits. Assuming that the weapons
batteries are in range thats 24 firepower for 18 dice for 6 hits. SO youre
looking at about 5 hits and probably a critical. Up until the point where you
realized that the Imp will at worst shoot after 1 Phantom.... 30 Fp = 22 dice
for about 7 Hits. Its likely to be 3 hits from the death rays and 1 hit from
the mega cannon. Thats 11 - which is proably going to cause 2 Crits on the
lucky phantom. Ok it may survive that (the most likely scenario is its living
on about 1DC) but the odds are good that its dead right there and the imperator
will have done almost half its value right there (and diminished the return
fire substantially). Things get worse for the eldar once they lose their
points advantage........6 D Cannon should give about 4 crit hits which is a much
better return but in that case theres a good chance only 4 will get to shoot
even so its a better deal. Just hope that if you have 6 Dcannons running round
that there are WEs to shoot at - otherwise theyre little better than 1AT shot
each. Ahhhh eldar specialization strikes again.
> > hits) and then use the awesome Engines of Vaul on pop up to deliver the
> > killing blow.

        CC is probably the best way. Ive typically avoided IMperators in the
games Ive played up until now (nothing like seeing 1000 points of butt kicking
power look impotent as all its targets disappear behind cover or go to the
other end of the battlefield. Warlock Titans with a CC weapon are probably the
single unit best able to get in and pound an Imperator. It just depends how
well the old Holofields hold up. Other titans - well Bugs have the no shield
problem - but ducking out from behind cover works well the trick is not giving
the Imp a shot on the way in. That largely depends on the terrain you use. Im
not suggesting you create a jungle but our group has always seen the Imperator
as being a bit unfair if all the terrain was so low as to stop other units
(especially titans) from hiding from it. Add a few largish buildings (maybe
even a BIG hill) just to stop the Imp having a totally free field of fire).
Balancing the terrain so theres a fair split between open and cover - for ALL
units (the Imp is just an especially noticeable case) is an important part of
a good (and fair) game. Power terrain placing sucks. Just remember an Imp cant
have a CC weapon - most other titans with one will have a higher assault value.
Using pskyers or other troops to support the titan works well too. Remember -
with a CC weapon you only have to win by 1.......
        Charging with just troops - well Ive seen a Harlequin troupe get lucky
and nail the Imperator in 1 turn (well not THAT lucky - with blast markers ,
psykers and assault taken into accout they were at +4 - but they ended up
winniong by 6. 8 hits on the imperator (1 hit on the harlequins which the
S.Seer saved) which got 2 criticals - a 10 and a double 8 :) the latter doing
12 points.......). Killing the imperator was lucky - reducing it to half
strength was expected.
        What really jacks me off though is if you do kill an Imp with infantry
it IS going to blow up (5 in 6 !!!) and take out pretty much all the troops in
base contact. Thats harsh considering a unit good enough to win the fight
can easily cost 1/2 as much as the imperator. Given the fact that youll probably
 ned 2 of these units and even if you do everything right (set up the combat
and avoid getting massacred on the way in......) point for point it will end
up damn near a draw on most occasions. If you stuff up the Imp should win
easily. A Lose-Draw situation isnt that great.......
        On the up side any army - especially if you use your hero units - can
get enough bodies ganging up on the imperator to have a higher assault value.
(Orks may have to go overboard on Nobz though..........heck theres always
supporting fire I guess. 37 isnt that much when you can take 12 units).
Just make sure you use some artillery or something to give you an edge in
blast markers, and try to get more psykers in the fight. If you can get a +3
on the assault modifiers before you roll the dice your chances of winning are
excellent (though Ideally you want to win by at least 3).
        As for shooting the imperator. Well if you can get them in range and
not too badly shot up Land Raiders or support platforms (especially on OW)
 can really outgun an imperator. Even units which only have FP rather than AT
arent THAT bad because of the titan column on the FP table and the 5 armour.
Still you want to throw a LOT into it. If you dont kill it first turn its
probably going to have 6 shields back the following turn (and should have killed
 quite a bit of your stuff). While the thought of getting some death ray hits
on an imperator is nice remember from full strength an imperator will probably
take 5+ criticals to take down. The double 8 or 12 rolls which are the only
ones that will let you do more than 6Dp in a hit arent likely. Also when your
opponent realizes that youre gunning for the Imp he'll probably shoot with that
first in the WE shooting phase. As such at MOST youll only get 1 war engine
det to shoot at it before it gets to fire (a big advantage of a large unit -
more of your firepower gets to shoot sooner). With the Imperators 3 death rays
shieldless SHVs like Shadowswords and EoVs are probably going to drop at the
rate of 2-3 a turn. Im not sure that putting these units up against an
Imp in a shooting contest is a good plan. THe Imp is one of the best gun
platforms in the game (point for point even ....) especially amongst SHVs.
Throw enough units at it and youll probably kill it but it wont be a very
profitable victory.
> >

> > My heart goes out to armies like Tyranids who have very little firepower
> > (which is easily suppressed by the Imperator) and need to be able to close
> > quickly to then lose hundreds of lives desperately trying to get a lucky hit
> > that just may cause the Imperator some annoyance.
        Huh - hundreds of lives ? Ok hopefully youll have noticed my above
arguments that shooting at Imperators is a bad thing. Bugs have some of the
games best CC troops. What you need is to get a unit of 12 (so you get to roll
12 dice) inf stands with a total assault value of 37 or more. This needs to
include a psyker and the faster it moves the better. Use an air strike or
spore mines or SOMETHING to ensure you have less blast markers than the Imp.
Charge from behind cover. With a +3 dice roll youll probably win by 3. He'll
hit on a 5+ and kill 4 bugs youll hit on a 3+ and do 8 hits and probably a
critical. If you roll 8+ (maybe even 7+ ) on the crit youll end up doing 12
(ie half) damage. Not bad - I just hope you have somewhere to run to avoid the
return fire. Repeat process with another unit in a turn or 2 and no more
Imperator. The hard part is avoiding getting shot at on the way in. Also he may
have supporting infantry. It makes things a little trickier (but remember if
youre facing this youre facing a more expensive opponent and should expect to
have to pay a few more points to deal with the 2 problems) but you can live
with it.
        The nastiest thing Ive seen was a chaos player as a joke take a unit
with 12 BTs and 2 LoCs. This charged an Imp from 45-50 cm from behind cover
after a Land Raider had put a single BM on the Imp. The result - more BMs on
the Imp , outscored 3 to 1 on the assault scored and had more psykers. That was
+5..... They won by 7 then had 24!!!!! dice to roll (19 hits 4 crits bye bye
Imp). At which point the Imp blew and took out 8 BTs. Not really a fair trade
for the Imperial player even so.........
> >
> > If we could widen this discussion just slightly, my opponent would be more
> > than grateful if anyone could help his bugs destroy Imperators and Phantoms
> > (not in the same game, obviously - we are not cheesemongers).
> >

        Phantoms - just shoot them. The fixed save in CC doesnt make that as
attractive an option as it is against other titans. Their guns arent as good
as Imperial titans and the Holofields and 5+ save vs 6+ save and void shields
means theyre about as well armoured as a Reaver (ie about 4 Vs worth). 1 Dice in
 18 (1 in 12 for AT) is going to cause a critical. While you probably need
about 3 crits to kill a Phantom its effectiveness will probably be reduced after
 even 1 hit. For normal guns (ie ones with FP) youre therefore looking at
needing 3 crits = 18 hits = 54 shots = 72 firepower to kill it. To kill a reaver
 in a turn with FP you need about 10 hits (assume 1 critical in the 6 that go
through the shields) = 60 shots = 80 firepower to kill it on average. Of course
AT shots make a bigger difference aginst the Reaver than against a Phantom.
(20 AT shots will trash a reaver 36!!!! needed against a Phantom) Also
 if that 72 Firepower is spread out over a number of turns the phantom will
still die on average after 72 FP has been thrown at it. The Reavers void shields
 will repair if you dont kill it first time and make the job even harder.
        For arming Imperial titans Id suggest the heavy weapons battery as the
weapon of choice. 3 turns for a reaver and a bit over 2 for a warlord to kill
a Phantom when armed with these. You should do a crit on the first turn (whereas a Phantom shouldnt even go through your shields first time - unless he's got
a Dcannon). Also it makes you laugh at blast markers.......
        Somedays when the opponent makes all his 2+ rolls Phantoms will seem
indestructible. Other days they crumble if someone farts in their direction.As
an eldar player Im always sweating whenever ANYTHING shoots at a Phaontom no
matter how small or puny........
                                                whew - that was longer than I
                                                expected and I still didnt
                                                talk about everything I wanted
Received on Thu Jan 01 1970 - 00:00:00 UTC

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.3.0 : Tue Oct 22 2019 - 13:10:09 UTC