[Epic] Titans and CC (a new theory...) LONG

From: Brett Hollindale <agro_at_...>
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 09:04:52 GMT

First off, thanks to all of those who have answered my request for opinions
on the potential vulnerability of titans in CC. (All feedback has been
taken on board, I assure you!)

Let me reprint my original posting to remind us what we are discussing, and
then expound upon a some of my assumptions which appear to have perplexed a
few...


> I was having a think about the frightening vulnerability of titans to
close combat by > swarms of cheap troops and it occurs to me that in fact
there is no problem at all...
>
> Check this train of reasoning and see if there is a flaw:
>
> 1) When you make base to base contact with a model you are "pinned" and
must stop
> moving. (Unless you are a flyer, skimmer, too big to be pinned by the
thing you
> contact or the enemy model is already pinned.)
>
> 2) In order to gain a multiple attacker bonus on a titan, you must
contact the feet
> (unless you are a flyer, skimmer, jump troop or titan).
>
> 3) YOU CAN'T CONTACT THE FEET IF YOU ARE PINNED BY BASE TO BASE CONTACT!!!!
>
>
> Soooooo....
>
> Unless the titan is pinned by another titan, only skimmers and jump troops
can get a
> multiple attacker bonus on the titan.
>
> One of the guys I play with suggests that I must be deranged to even
suggest something > this absurd but I don't know, as the rules stand (I mean
EPIC Space Marine) I can't
> see any problem.
>
> Feedback, please...
>
> Agro


Now, the assumption that "models" are pinned by "base to base" contact seems
to be the sticking point.


I HAD thought that this was obvious, but since no one agrees, it obviously
isn't obvious (some pun intended :-)

Let me quote:

Entering Close Combat (TL page 32) states:

As soon as a troop stand or vehicle model touches an enemy they are both
engaged in close assault and stop moving immediately if they are pinned (see
below).

<end quote> (Note that the "see below" is a quote from the rules and does
not refer to something further down in this message. The "below" refered to
explains what it is to be "pinned".)



Now, it doesn't get much clearer than "stops moving immediately" - the only
contentious point that I can concieve is whether the titan's base counts as
"an enemy" or not.

In my opinion, this point is NOT in contention. Here's why...



Every other figure's base counts as part of the model. (Otherwise infantry
stands could never enter CC with each other as it is impossible to make
"model to model" contact. Ditto Daemons, Knights, literally anything with a
base...) Furthermore, when measuring range for a troop stand, you measure
from the edge of the base to the edge of the base (TL page 28), so the base
sounds like "part of the model" to me...

Further evidence of the "enemy nature" of the titan's base is the ability of
a titan to "sweep forward" and voluntarily engage anything in contact with
their base. (TL page 33) Why not anything within such and such a distance
of the titan? What is so special about the base? I figure it must be
because the base is "part of the model" (sorry to labour the obvious!)

And of course the IRREFUTABLE EVIDENCE that the titan's base **IS** part of
the titan is given by the fact that skimmers, flyers and jump troops only
have to touch the titan's base to fight a CC with the titan.

(I know I could have used this evidence first, but I play EPIC - I am a
sadist at heart...)



For those who don't have TL handy let me quote page 33 "Titans and Gargants
in Close Combat":

In order to fight against a Titan or Gargant in close combat, vehicles,
SHV's, and troop stands must move into contact with the model itself,
usually moving so that they touch the models feet (or equivalent).

A Titan is able to lean forward, sweeping the ground to its front and side.
To represent this a Titan can always opt to fight a close combat with models
in contact with its base (if it has one), even if the enemy is not actually
touching the Titan's feet.

Enemy models that can fly or leap over large distances can also fight if
they are touching the Titan's base - they don't need to be touching the
Titan's feet. This applies to skimmers, flyers and jump pack equipped troups.

When two Titan's or gargants fight each other it is sufficient to move both
models so that their bases are touching. Both can then fight.

end quote




So far, I have received a whole bunch of replies suggesting that folks are
"sure that this is not what GW intended because if they had intended such a
radical departure from the usual CC proceedures, they would have made it
clearer". Well, I would say that they have spelled it out as clearly as
could be expected for GW.

(Does anyone know for sure whether doomweavers ignore void shields? How
many FAQ's do you have on file Allen? And how many unanswered? If GW wrote
their rules WELL, there wouldn't be any FAQ's would there?)

>From the fact that they mention it at all, it seems fair to assume that GW
intended something out of the ordinary for titans and gargants in CC.
Remember that these rules we are discussing come from the rule set designed
to make titans more powerful (and thereby more attractive to the model
buying public).

Remember also that preceeding my modest proposal ;-) we had had two weeks of
NetEPIC bitching about how vulnerable titans were to CC - so much so that (I
think) the "concensus" was to implement some rule or other from Adeptus
Titanicus that made titans less vulnerable to CC in the old days...

Obviously _I_ don't know what GW had in mind. (But isn't it obvious that GW
were trying to make titans more effective in CC or less vulnerable or maybe
even both?)

I have simply read the rules and formed an opinion. I have asked for
feedback - and I have received it (and I thank you for it) but so far no one
has actually addressed the issue of the rules as written. (OK so I didn't
spell it out in nauseating detail before today - sue me! :-)

If anything I have mentioned above requires further clarification (hard to
believe!), I will most happily oblige.

If anyone responds to this epic EPIC tretise, I strongly suggest a BIG SNIP
for the sake of all our sanities...

Thanking you in advance for your positive (and negative) feedback

Agro



PS. I think I know how Galilleo and Columbus must have fealt... ;-)
Received on Fri Mar 07 1997 - 09:04:52 UTC