Re: [Epic] E40K:Tyranids Suck!!!

From: David Lado <lado_at_...>
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 16:41:21 -0400 (EDT)

>>I think you missed a rule (page 22 of the rule book, my emphasis)
>>under "1. TOTAL ASSAULT VALUES"
>>
>>"Any other units _from the detachment involved in the combat_ which
>>are with 15cm of the enemy each add a further +1 to the total..."
>>
>>So what you should have had was
>>
>>tyranids 34, marines _6_
>>
>>tyranids roll 2+4 = 6
>>SMs roll 5+1=6 (psycher doesn't count because he's not in the CC)
>
>in the chart and in the book it reads "Psycher in/Support"
>so a psycher can lend his +1 to support fire and a +1 to the die roll

The only people who count in CCs are detachments which have units
in base to base contact. Other detachments just hanging around
don't count (they lend moral support). Warengines have a special
exemption from this rule, saying that they can support other
detatchments in CC as long as they are within 15 cm of an enemy
unit involved in the CC (either directly or supporting).

Read the rules on page 22 (bottom of the page). In order support
a CC (i.e., lend a +1 to the total assault value), you must:

1 Be be IN (i.e. a member of) one of the detatchments that has
   troops in CC (i.e. base to base contact).
2 You must be within 15 cm of an enemy unit either in the CC or
   supporting it (i.e. an enemy unit in the detatchment you are
   fighting).

Simply being within 15 cm of a CC doesn't entitle a unit to support
it (except for warengines). The psycher is not in the whirlwind
detatchment (if I read correctly) and so does not lend either his
+1 AV or give a +1 psycher bonus.

>>Several people have complained that the new CC system is too
>>random. While agree that it is more random, I don't think it's
>>too random.
>>
>>With the old system, all that mattered was getting units into
>>base to base contact. After that, CAF and dice rolls took over.
>>What it meant was that (1) mounting an assault mostly meant
>>charging headlong into the enemy and (2) because each CC was
>>rolled individually, the results tended to be averaged out over
>>the entire unit. This works fine and it generates a set of
>>tactics to go with it.
>
>With this i Disaagree..
>
>in the old system you had to Protect your assests (most of the time this
>was your Artillery) with other troops now you don't .. ex...
<snipped example>

This is very true. But I was talking about the mechanics of the
game, not in the tactics that are emergent from those mechanics.
To go win CC in SM, the _only_ thing that matters is getting
troops into base to base contact. Shooting the enemy up was not
important (except that he had fewer troops :), nor did any other
factors affect the outcome of those CCs. Any troops who came up
short of the enemy were useless. All that matters is how many
troops are in CC and their CAFs.

In the new systems, you not only want troops in base-to-base contact,
but you want troops to support, you want to have fewer BMs, you want
your opponent to have 5+ BMs and you want more psychers. These are
all considerations that have no paralell in SM/TL. Because the
mechanics of the game have changed, there will be a change in tactics
as well. Simply getting your stealers into base-to-base with IG tanks
no longer guarentees victory.
 
>Supporting fire is easly done with armies that can shoot or have air
>power that can survive an intercept.. something that the tyranid army
>does not have!

What do you call biovores and dactylis'? They both have 60 cm range
and the biovores can ride assault spawn. These troops can deploy into
a position to support even a fast-moving assault force. If you are
using spore-pods, you would be well advised not to drop on units
outside your support reach (unless you have an overwhelming advantage
in numbers and psychers).

>i could be totaly chessey and not take any hive tyrants and take a full
>allotmetn of 18 Tyranid warriors in ever brood to lead them.. 6 *3 one
>is hq when destroye one of the other 2 sets of 6 take over.. but that
>would solve the Landraider destroyin the hq in the first turn of fire.

Hmmmmm, land raiders are a tough nut for anyone (except those engines
of vaul seemsed to make short work of them :). Taking some extra
synapse creaters would certainly help (nothing cheesy abut taking
3 tyrannid broods, it's not like they're free). Also, using biovores
to pin them in place might help, allowing the assault troops to
hopefully hide behind terrain as they advance.

Frex, you could take a brood with

3 tyranid warriors 51 pts
8 biovore 160
3 dactylis 96 (to soak off BMs)
5 termagants 35 (to soak up casualties)
                        ___
                        342 pts

The biovores alone can drop 6 BMs per turn at 60 cm (8 on overwatch).
Plus, they can do it while sitting behind hills, woods, buildings,
ect, which means the only thing that will be able to shoot back is
enemey artillery (thus the termagants and dactylis to soak up those
effects).

Even a marine detachment with 5 BMs will only have a 1 in 3 chance
of moving. So now you just need to keep the assault force out of
sight while it advances....


>ps i'm glad to have posted this earlier because of all the responses and
>sorry bout posting it many times i messed up singning up and i was not
>getting an epic email i put:
>
>maelstorm1.juno.com
>
>instead of
>maelstorm_at_...
>
>Doooouuuhhhh...!!
Received on Sat Jul 19 1997 - 20:41:21 UTC