>
> Marines have plenty of their own transports, sticking
>them in the PT would be fairly silly. Usually I'd fill it up
>with 5 beasts, 5 plague bearers, and either Mortarion or a GUO
>depending on what I have in my army. The nurgle demons get a
>lot out of being transported since they're normally slow slow
>slow and they don't have any neat-o regeneration or splitting
>powers to protect them from getting shot up on the way in.
-----> Yep, the GUO was always the one I had the most trouble
getting some use out of - he always dragged along behind, and he has to
get almost as close as a B-thirster to do anything. Plaguebearers
were always a little disappointing too. Still used 'em, just thought
they should do more...
>
>> I usually go LOB, Angron if I'm taking the marines, and a B-thirster
>> otherwise. I have gotten in some licks with one - smoked an avatar
>> once (with card help),
>
> Hmmm... that's pretty dicey, what with the Avatar's
>2+ save and psychic CC hits...
----> Like I said - once, and it was not a fight I started -
I just wanted to discipline those banshees, and then
HE had to get involved.
>> but they also tend to attract more shots than
>> they probably should. It's hard to say - if they soak up enough shots
>> that they die, they seem ineffective, yet if they weren't shot at, what
>> would they do.
>
> My opponents were generally smart enough to not even
>bother shooting at it (unless they were trying to strip cards,
>in which case it's a good a target as any), because they know
>it's not going to accomplish much of anything.
----He worked OK against those armies who had charge units as well -
the Orky cult of speed, , some bike units, etc. Other than this, it
was use the cards to keep him alive til he can do something...
>
>> > > I also happen to like the banelord,
>> >
>> > !!! more useless than the daemon engines, IMHO.
>>
>> ----> OK, I'll assume there's an explanation for that.
>
> There is - the Banelord sucks (simple, and to the
>point).
>
> 900 points for a short-ranged titan that can't use
>FF orders.
-----> Taken. It's main weapons are 75 cm and 50cm though -
about like the rest of chaos...
> Generally gets to fire some missiles from its
>rack and then gets blown to smithereens with minimal shooting
>(once those void shields are gone, it doesn't take much to
>knock through the crappy armor on that front reactor location).
----> The void shield/armor complaint is part of all warlord titans.
Nothing better/worse about it there.Also, void shields can be
repaired at the end of the turn.
>Advance orders suck, and it's not fast enough to really catch
>anything in CC. And the amazingly high price tag means that
>in a normal battle, you can't take any other titans to give
>some much needed fire support.
----> Normal for us was 5-6000 pts. Room for a couple in there.
Speedwise it's not better or worse than other Warlords, and
honestly I usually don't have a problem with the enemy moving towards
me. Not the whole army, maybe, but even squats have those biker
guilds, and they just can't resist using them.
>
> Chaos already has bunches of nasty short-ranged
>weapons and machines that are good in CC. It doesn't need
>to pay 900 points for a fragile titan that already covers
>those bases.
----> For chaos it has "normal" range and the void shields will
suck up 6 hits in one turn -better than chaos cards. Should survive
long enough to get somewhere.
>
>> (My view - more stuff than a regular warlord
>
> How so? It's got 5 weapons but any warlord titan
>can have 5 weapons. Some of the Banelord weapons are
>superior to the standard issue equivalents (doomfist), but
>the other weapons are inferior (tail gun, the arm cannon).
>So it all evens out.
-----> Chaos lacks barrage weapons. Bloodletter is as survivable
as any chaos unit if not moreso and carries 2 nice barrage
weapons. Excels at HTH (normal for chaos).
>> for the same price
>
> 900 points vs. 500. Hmmmm...
----> Not everyone takes a titan battlegroup. Smaller fights,
lack of flexibility (those grouped titans have the standard
25cm command radius, so you have 3 titans within a
small area). I wouldn't neccesarily let the fact that
someone pays less for the same thing stop me from taking
a unit I found effective. Those weak armor and shields
apply to the good guy's warlords too, so how scary can
they be ?... : )
>
>
>> Worth it
>> to me...besides, it came out with a damn nice paint job,
>> which matters at least as much as the game stats.
>
> Ehhh... I'm not going to lose a game just because
>I've got a model with a nice paint job... My opponents were
>equal/superior to me in ability, meaning that if I took any
>inferior units I would almost definitely lose (unless they
>also took crap in their army, but that wasn't likely).
>Heck, I've got a tzeentch warlord titan that was a huge
>conversion job (for me, anyway) and I love it a lot, but
>I've never actually used it in a game of SM/TL because I
>can't justify spending so many points on something that
>isn't worth it.
----> See, I gave it a good paint job becuse I like it and use
it...we can agree to disagree on some of this, I guess.
So far, all titans for Chaos suck, most daemon engines suck,
what DID you use...?(OK plague tower - what else?)
What units are not crap?
I can field an imperial army with different colors and call it chaos,
but I choose not to. I want to play CHAOS, not unhappy
guardsmen/marines. Yes, marines are more effective, but
too many marines and you might as well go all imperial...
>> ----> I undertook an intensive study of the E40K Chaos list
>> over the weekend, and I noticed a couple of things:
>>
>> 1) Slaanesh beast rders look to be a lot more effective
>> in this version.
>
> Are you thinking of Fiends, maybe? Beast riders
>are an upgrade, just like Juggers and Disc Riders.
----Ooops that was fiends. I actually have some of these,
so there's hope yet...
>
>> 2) Juggers are an upgrade but not a unit - I guess I'd
>> call 'em a demon with cavalry and rampage. Anyone willing
>> to buy "save" or "assault" ?
>> 3) Same with Discs - upgrades but not units. What did we
>> come up with? Demon - cavalry, skimmer?
>
> It's all on my e40k page, somewhere... ah! here
>we go:
>
>http://www.rpi.edu/~shupes/EPIC/E40K/post.mia.html#ChaosCalvary
>
>> 4) Oh great. No marine speeders for chaos - I know why
>> from the 40K Codex, I was just hoping they'd overlook
>> it. Guess they get converted to blood angels...
>
> Or use them as chaos speeders, with the same
>point values as the marine ones (with your opponent's
>permission). Or, you could borrow a page from the 40k
>Chaos Codex and just say any post-heresy equipment is
>available but costs 50% more than normal marines pay.
-----> hey, maybe I can get T-hawks too.... : )
>> 5) What's up with those greater demons? Seem kinda
>> weak to me "stubborn" for a KOS? "save" is OK,
>> and psyker is OK, but couldn't they do better than that?
>
> GDs have suffered a huge downgrade in power. But
>then, they are no longer the center of the army. The first
>few times I played I got a shock when my GDs got picked off
>by AT shots. "Oh yeah? Well, I'll just sacrifice a cha-
>oh." And they are much cheaper now as well, so it's not
>like they're overpriced or anything. It's just that, like
>a lot of units, their relative power level has been
>radically changed.
----> Now they're all basically like the B-thirster was. No real
ranged ability, just nasty in HTH. "Psyker". wow. I think I want
my Bolt of Change back...
(But the GUO actually gets a FP attack now! OOOH 15 cm!
He can duel Eldar Jet Bikes! I wonder if his Puke-shot was more
effective before...)
>
>> I almost think treating them as some kind of War engine
>> would be better...
>
> That's a little TOO much. WEs are huge machines
>that aren't very maneuverable. Anything that was a Knight
>in SM/TL (GDs, hive tyrants, slaanesh engines) didn't make
>the WE cut.
>
>Scott
>shupes_at_...
I guess the Nid players would be a little ticked...
but GD's were one of the few units that could take
multiple hits in SM/TL. Knights were still just 1 hit- 1 dead.
I know some of the nid stuff was similar but I haven't dealt with
them too much. I think a 4 - hit war engine would be appropriate
with a "pick-a-power" list for each GD type. I don't think anyone
other than some hard-core chaos players would even consider it,
but I think it could be done in a reasonable fashion. Imagine the
crit table
"twisted ankle - movement halved"
etc.
I'll check out your site...
Chris Miller
This is what the list is for -
thrashing it out. Right?
Received on Mon Jul 28 1997 - 19:58:35 UTC